holy cow

[tweetz]

Friday night, girls varsity, home team is 2nd or 3rd in the state and notorious for having a tough crowd. 69-69 with 1.5 sec in the game. follwing the tying basket, white (home) goes to inbound the ball to her wide open teammate who is a whole step inbounds. somehow they seemed unsure of what they were doing and when the pass recipient catches the ball, she has her right foot on the court, left foot suspended above OOB, she then for some reason decides that she was supposed to be the inbounder and allows her suspended foot to land (OOB). I blow the whistle, buzzer sounds about a second later. We put 1 sec on the clock, spot throw in for blue under their basket. White's coach who's been yappy all game walks (WAY) out onto the court. almost to the center circle when I finally hear him yell "TIME!". (I haven't given the ball to blue yet, I blow my whistle, "time white" start walking up to him and my partner gets to him first. I figure she's going to tell him too sit, then I consider T'ing him myself for knowing better than to walk that far onto the court. (by the way, my voice is so hoarse it doesn't do me any good to talk to someone more than 2 ft in front of me.) As my partner starts talking to him, I gather my bearings and turn to face the players. Coach says something about "what's going on" and I turned and said to him, "I just gave you your time out". Then I'm not sure exactly what else he said, but my partner T's him. crowd goes wild. He doesn't budge. I take the ball to go administer the FT's. I go to my partner and tell her I gave him his time out,(I don't think she knew I called it, she didn't know that's why he walked on the court) the table buzzes me and the scorekeeper wants to know why we put 1sec back up. I (oops) finally report the time out, officially, even though I had said it enough times as we were right in front of table and both benches. for some reason neither team had gone to their benches, they just went to half court and stood there. Even after I report it, they STAYED LINGERING AT HALF COURT.... white goes to their bench finally, then I turn to the visiting coach and say " I just gave them the time out...(they stare at me blankly)...Do you want to use it too? you can talk to your team now..." They snap out of it and go "oh, yea, thanks." my partner & I meet at center court and ponder what the heck just went on.
(blue comes back from the time out, makes the 2nd FT... 69-70 now blue ball at half court, they inbound and the last second dies, we run for our stripey little lives to the peace and quiet of the locker room as whites coach follows us halfway across the court again.)

What do you all think about that? should my partner and I have communicated quickly before/as we were approaching him? I thought she heard me tell him I just granted his time out request, but then it was so loud, and my voice was so hoarse that I actually don't think either of them heard me. I was glad she T'd him, but I'm thinking I should have gotten to him quicker and told him to back the heck up, on the other hand, I was ready to T him anyway for being on the court in the first place. He knows better.

[johnnyrao]

We have been told time and again that we cannot let coaches come out of the box for any reason. The coaches have also been told this and it has been reinforced in pre-game conferences all season long. As hard as it is to do I think you must assess the T for him being on the court. If he wants a TO he can have one of his players come to you and request it. For some reason coaches forget this method.

[deecee]

then hes allowed on the court to be a coach -- if he wasnt coming after you guys after the timeout i think this sounds like a bad T.

i wasnt there but it sounds like he wanted a timeout and wanted to make sure you guys noticed him before you gave blue the ball -- fine with me give him a timeout -- if your partner called a t for him for coming on the court after you gave him a timeout i think you should tell your partner what happend and that he has a right to be out there to gather his players to his bench (this assuming he didnt come on the court to yell at you guys) -- then your partner needs to rescind the tech as it was a bad tech if thats the case and explain to the other coach what just happened. now if he keeps coming at you then T him up - as for saying im glad he got that t because i wished i t'd him up earlier then thats your fault for not t'ing him up earlier -- at this point it didnt sound like he was coming after you guys he just wanted a timeout and it was a dead ball so give him his timout -- what happened before this call was just that before this call and in looking back if you wished you should have t'd him up earlier then it needed to have been done when you initially felt like it.

but thats just my opinion -- as long as coaches are coaching their team i am very flexible with the coaching box -- if they star getting chirpy then i remind them of the box and if they continue then i T them up. but its better to be preventive and try and develop a relationship with coaches as courteous and not confrontational. most coaches know when they are about the get a t.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by deecee
as long as coaches are coaching their team i am very flexible with the coaching box

And YOU are part of the problem according to the NFHS. That is why they gave a clear directive to all state associations, school administrators, coaches, and officials. Why do you choose to ignore it?
Do you consider yourself above the rules?

2005-06 Points of Emphasis
1. Sporting Behavior.
...
D. Coaching box: The committee wants coaches to stay in the coaching box. There is a constant problem when coaches wander. It is a distinct advantage to the coach who is permitted to be out of the box because the coach has a better chance to communicate with his/her team. The coach can also influence play by being out on the court.

The rule is black-and-white, but it has not been dealt with properly. Most officials have not enforced the rule. The fact that the coach is not directing comments to the officials or is “coaching the team” has no bearing on rule enforcement. The coach who continually abuses the coaching-box rule risks having his or her governing body remove it completely. The official who doesn’t enforce it runs the risk of not following what the governing body wants enforced.

Once the coaching box has been removed because of a technical foul, all related rules restrictions must apply. There’s no way to get the box back after the privilege has been lost.

Assistant coaches must be seated at all times except during time-outs, to attend to an injured player after being beckoned and to spontaneously react to a play. The rules that permit a head coach to rise in certain situations (time-outs, confer with table personnel for a correctable error, dealing with disqualifications) do not apply to assistant coaches under any circumstances. Again, the fact that an assistant coach is “only coaching” has no bearing on the rule or enforcement.

Head coaches have the responsibility to remain in the box. School administrators must support that by demanding their coaches do so. When violated, the official must enforce the rule with a technical foul.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by tweetz
the table buzzes me and the scorekeeper wants to know why we put 1sec back up.

I think I'm with the scorekeeper. Why did you put time back up? If there was 1.5 seconds and the ball was inbounded to a player who was inbounds and then made a step out of bounds -- the starting of the clock upon the touching of the ball inbounds, plus the normal lag time of the timer in shutting off the clock, would take this 1.5 seconds off the clock.

I'm not sure that I understand the sequence of everything here, but it appears to me that a proper handling of the clock issue would have prevented the mess that followed.

Just a thought.

[tweetz]

bgtg19, you have a good point, if we had just let that 1sec die, we would have avoided the whole situation altogether and gone into overtime. however, the buzzer clearly went off a full second after I blew my whistle and the coach seemed to understand what we were doing and why, and he didn't question us about it, and he had plenty of time to ask us nicely. He chose to wait until I was ready to inbound the ball and was all of a sudden trying to cause a commotion. (and... this wasn't the smartest scorekeeper either.)

In response to deecee: heck yea he was coming after us, he sure as heck wasn't gathering his ducklings out there as he stood at HALFCOURT NEAR THE CENTER CIRCLE. He was complaining, not ferociously, but started in with the "this whole game blah-blah-blah...".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tweetz
[B] however, the buzzer clearly went off a full second after I blew my whistle and the coach seemed to understand what we were doing and why, and he didn't question us about it, and he had plenty of time to ask us nicely.

And the timer is allowed a full second of lag time to stop the clock after your whistle, as per 5.10.1SitB-COMMENT. Iow, bgtb19 was correct. The rules do not allow you to put any time back on the clock.

[Texas Aggie]

I agree with JR. There's too many officials putting too much time on the clock. That's the biggest problem I see in this event.

We all want to avoid OT, but fix it only if there's a big lag and you have "definite knowledge."

[tweetz]

[/QUOTE]And the timer is allowed a full second of lag time to stop the clock after your whistle, as per 5.10.1SitB-COMMENT. Iow, bgtb19 was correct. The rules do not allow you to put any time back on the clock. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, I did NOT know that. I am now slightly wiser, thank you.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tweetz
Friday night, girls varsity, home team is 2nd or 3rd in the state and notorious for having a tough crowd. 69-69 with 1.5 sec in the game. follwing the tying basket, white (home) goes to inbound the ball to her wide open teammate who is a whole step inbounds. somehow they seemed unsure of what they were doing and when the pass recipient catches the ball, she has her right foot on the court, left foot suspended above OOB, she then for some reason decides that she was supposed to be the inbounder and allows her suspended foot to land (OOB). I blow the whistle, buzzer sounds about a second later.

*******We put 1 sec on the clock, spot throw in for blue under their basket. White's coach who's been yappy all game walks (WAY) out onto the court. almost to the center circle when I finally hear him yell "TIME!". (I haven't given the ball to blue yet, I blow my whistle, "time white" start walking up to him and my partner gets to him first. I figure she's going to tell him too sit, then I consider T'ing him myself for knowing better than to walk that far onto the court. (by the way, my voice is so hoarse it doesn't do me any good to talk to someone more than 2 ft in front of me.) As my partner starts talking to him, I gather my bearings and turn to face the players. Coach says something about "what's going on" and I turned and said to him, "I just gave you your time out". ******

Then I'm not sure exactly what else he said, but my partner T's him. crowd goes wild. He doesn't budge. I take the ball to go administer the FT's. I go to my partner and tell her I gave him his time out,(I don't think she knew I called it, she didn't know that's why he walked on the court) the table buzzes me and the scorekeeper wants to know why we put 1sec back up....

If you and your partner had gotten together at either of the points where I put ****** , it would have made the whole sitch cleaner and more controlled looking. I agree with others about the rules for putting time back on the clock, but even if you were going to put time back on, it might have been good to get partner, both coaches and the scorekeeper in a huddle, explain once, grant the TO at that point and keep everything cool and collected. I think we all tend to try to rush through things, after all, we are told over and over again to just get the ball into play to avoid problems. But sometimes (and I'm still working on this myself), it's better to slow down, take a deep breath and sort of re-group.

On the other hand, if you'd skipped the extra second, and just gone to overtime when the inbounder violated, it would have been even better.