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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:21pm
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Held ball.
Possession arrow is pointing toward Team A's basket.
Official hands the ball to A1 for the throw-in.
B1 reaches across the end-line as he is trying to defend the throw-in.
Official blows whistle and warns Team B for crossing the vertical plane on the throw-in. The warning is recorded in the score book.
Official starts the throw-in again.
Throw-in is completed.

Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:28pm
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No.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:37pm
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I would have changed the arrow ... so I'm saying he's wrong - but I'm guessing there is more to this one.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Held ball.
Possession arrow is pointing toward Team A's basket.
Official hands the ball to A1 for the throw-in.
B1 reaches across the end-line as he is trying to defend the throw-in.
Official blows whistle and warns Team B for crossing the vertical plane on the throw-in. The warning is recorded in the score book.
Official starts the throw-in again.
Throw-in is completed.

Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?
OK, we all agree the official is wrong to not change the possession arrow. (Of course the official doesn't change it anyway, but I digress)

What's the catch (or what do you think the catch is)?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:53pm
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I'm guessing that the DOG violation ended the AP throw-in try and it then became a violation throw in try... so maybe thats why he didn't want to change the arrow.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by caliref
I'm guessing that the DOG violation ended the AP throw-in try and it then became a violation throw in try... so maybe thats why he didn't want to change the arrow.
OK, to take this to its natural progression. If the DOG is the second and becomes a T, then the following throw-in would be at the division line for the T and not the completion of the original throw-in, so maybe you do not change the AP after the first DOG.

OK, I'll concede, that was a better question than I originally thought.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:06pm
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Thanks for the input....

Kajun ref in Texas is right.

Rule 9 Section 2 Article 11 says "The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary plane...."

The penalty says "The first violation of the throw-in boundary plane by an opponent of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay...."

So.... it is a violation.... and the ball is given back to the same team at the same place.....but because of the violation... by definition this is not an AP throw-in anymore.

Therefore the official (table) should not reverse the AP arrow.

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Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:12pm
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Re: Thanks for the input....

Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Kajun ref in Texas is right.

Rule 9 Section 2 Article 11 says "The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary plane...."

The penalty says "The first violation of the throw-in boundary plane by an opponent of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay...."

So.... it is a violation.... and the ball is given back to the same team at the same place.....but because of the violation... by definition this is not an AP throw-in anymore.

Therefore the official (table) should not reverse the AP arrow.

There is an argument, though, that you are penalizing Team B twice for one violation. The first penalty being the warning and the second being losing the AP.

I predict this thread will be long.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:40pm
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Re: Thanks for the input....

Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Kajun ref in Texas is right.

Rule 9 Section 2 Article 11 says "The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary plane...."

The penalty says "The first violation of the throw-in boundary plane by an opponent of the thrower shall result in a team warning for delay...."

So.... it is a violation.... and the ball is given back to the same team at the same place.....but because of the violation... by definition this is not an AP throw-in anymore.

Therefore the official (table) should not reverse the AP arrow.
So, let's say Team A scores, and Team B gets the endline throw-in. A1 reaches through, and the official calls the boundry plane violation. Does B lose the right to run the endline?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:23pm
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The answer here is NO because that would cause team A to gain an advantage by violating the plane. This rule was changed a few years ago!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 08:32pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Held ball.
Possession arrow is pointing toward Team A's basket.
Official hands the ball to A1 for the throw-in.
B1 reaches across the end-line as he is trying to defend the throw-in.
Official blows whistle and warns Team B for crossing the vertical plane on the throw-in. The warning is recorded in the score book.
Official starts the throw-in again.
Throw-in is completed.

Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?


The officials were correct in not reversing the AP Arrow per NFHS R9-S2-A11. Prior to B1 reaching across the boundary plane, Team B has not received a delay of game warning for violating the boundary plane during a throw-in, therefore, B1's action during Team A's throw-in is a violation and the penalty is an official team warning and Team A getting the ball for a new throw-in. Team A's original AP throw-in never ended so it does not lose the AP Arrow.

Lets take this play one step further. Lets assume that Team B had already received an official team warning for this type of violation. What is the penalty for B1's actions? Team B is charged with a technical foul and Team A receives two free throws and then the ball at the division line opposite the S/T'S Table for a throw-in. Is this throw-in an AP Throw-in or a throw-in that is part of the penalty for Team B's technical foul. The throw-in is part of the technical foul penatly and not an AP Throw-in. And Team A retains the AP Arrow.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:15am
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Just a question...Do people stay up nights thinking about this??
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
Just a question...Do people stay up nights thinking about this??
Nah, not me.

But does provide an interesting diversion from work every now and then...
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Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Held ball.
Possession arrow is pointing toward Team A's basket.
Official hands the ball to A1 for the throw-in.
B1 reaches across the end-line as he is trying to defend the throw-in.
Official blows whistle and warns Team B for crossing the vertical plane on the throw-in. The warning is recorded in the score book.
Official starts the throw-in again.
Throw-in is completed.

Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?
Nope.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 01, 2006, 09:53am
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Quote:
Originally posted by IREFU2
Quote:
Originally posted by JTRICE
Official does NOT change the Possession arrow.
Is the official correct?
Nope.
Oops...better read the whole thread.
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