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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 01:22pm
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I'm old enough (48) to remember when traveling was pretty easy to spot. But these days it seems as if the leniency given in the NBA has filtered down through college and now into high school and beyond. That being said, a couple of questions:

Why isn't that jump-stop move a travel? In the past the player got his 2-1/2 steps and if he landed again he was called for traveling. Now players take their 2-1/2, land on two feet and leave the ground again for a shot and it's legal. What am I missing?

While watching the UM/MSU game Wednesday I noticed that when players flash out and catch a pass, they often travel. For example, they'll catch the ball on the left foot, step to their right foot (which IMO establishes the pivot foot) and then step once more to the left foot. I suppose the argument could be made that it has no impact on the play and, therefore, should not be called. But it seems like an old-fashioned travel to me.


Does anyone else think enforcement of traveling is not near as tight as it used to be? I even see the extra steps at the middle school level rarely called.

Thoughts?
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 01:38pm
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Ahhhhh the lost art of the Travelling violation.

This is probably one of the most missunderstood or missapplied rules in the book.

If I see it I call it.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 01:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by kblehman
While watching the UM/MSU game Wednesday I noticed that when players flash out and catch a pass, they often travel. For example, they'll catch the ball on the left foot, step to their right foot (which IMO establishes the pivot foot) and then step once more to the left foot. I suppose the argument could be made that it has no impact on the play and, therefore, should not be called. But it seems like an old-fashioned travel to me.
I noticed the same move a couple years ago and have added that call to my repertoire. It often got questioned at first, but when I stopped to explain it to the coaches, they understood.

I think a similar thing occurs when a player comes flying in from the outside for a rebound and grabs the ball while he's still in the air. He often lands one Foot A, then B, then steps with foot A. Also a travel.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
I think a similar thing occurs when a player comes flying in from the outside for a rebound and grabs the ball while he's still in the air. He often lands on Foot A, then B, then steps with foot A. Also a travel.
Because Foot A is the established pivot foot?

Coincidentally, that very thing occurred in the UM-MSU game. It happened very quickly so I had to rewind my TiVo to see why it was called. Coach Izzo objected, but I thought it was a great call.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by kblehman
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
I think a similar thing occurs when a player comes flying in from the outside for a rebound and grabs the ball while he's still in the air. He often lands on Foot A, then B, then steps with foot A. Also a travel.
Because Foot A is the established pivot foot?

Coincidentally, that very thing occurred in the UM-MSU game. It happened very quickly so I had to rewind my TiVo to see why it was called. Coach Izzo objected, but I thought it was a great call.
Yes. When a player gains possession of the ball while in the air and does not land on both feet simultaneously, then the first foot down is considered to be the pivot foot.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 02:02pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Yes. When a player gains possession of the ball while in the air and does not land on both feet simultaneously, then the first foot down is considered to be the pivot foot.
Thank you.

Can you explain why the jump-stop move isn't a traveling violation?
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 02:25pm
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Rule 4-44-2-b-2
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 02:37pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kblehman
Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Yes. When a player gains possession of the ball while in the air and does not land on both feet simultaneously, then the first foot down is considered to be the pivot foot.
Thank you.

Can you explain why the jump-stop move isn't a traveling violation?
A moving, or dribbling, player is allowed to gather the ball with one foot on the floor and then jump (often splitting two opponents and other times just getting past a single opponent with a *Mother-may-I* leap) and land simultaneously on both feet, from that landing the player may not have a pivot foot.

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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 05:30pm
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I think it has to do with defining when the ball is "gathered". If the play is fast enough, it's hard to tell whether the player had both feet on the ground when the ball was actually completely "pulled in" or not, so the ref gives the benefit of the doubt.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 06:16pm
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I too have always been confused about the jump stop rule. Is there ever a situation when a player can jump stop and then pivot?
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
I too have always been confused about the jump stop rule. Is there ever a situation when a player can jump stop and then pivot?
I have to go with a *No* on that coach.

Absent the motion, if a player, with the ball, jumps off both feet, one of those feet became a pivot foot when he left the ground. If the player jumps, that player shall not land on either foot before releasing the ball. 4-44-3b
mick
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:55pm
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Sure. in Fed rules,

Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
I too have always been confused about the jump stop rule. Is there ever a situation when a player can jump stop and then pivot?
Sure. In Fed rules, if a dribbler, having his/her dribble, puts the ball out in front, jumps off of one, gathers the ball while in the air, and lands on two, then (per 44-2-a-1) either foot may be the pivot.
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Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 11:10pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ATXCoach
I too have always been confused about the jump stop rule. Is there ever a situation when a player can jump stop and then pivot?
Yes, as assignmentmaker said -- and this is how most coaches use the term "jump stop". The problem is, that the term also refers to the "gather the ball with one foot on the floor, jump off it and land simultaneously on both" move. Here, neither foot can be the pivot.

(Note -- iirc, the term is not defined in FED rules, but is in NCAA rules -- using both definitions above.)
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
A moving, or dribbling, player is allowed to gather the ball with one foot on the floor and then jump (often splitting two opponents and other times just getting past a single opponent with a *Mother-may-I* leap) and land simultaneously on both feet, from that landing the player may not have a pivot foot.
I understand that much of it. But these days the players seem to be taking their allotted 2 steps (after gathering the ball), then landing on both feet, then jumping off of two feet for their shot. In the past when a player gathered the ball and left the floor after his second step--regardless of whether the last step was off of one foot or two--he had to get rid of the ball before landing again.

The jumpstop move seems to allow a player to take his 2 steps and land (on 2 feet) without it being a violation. It seems like a clear travel to me, but that's not how it's usually called. I'm just trying to understand why the 2-steps-then-jumpstop isn't a violation.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by kblehman
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
A moving, or dribbling, player is allowed to gather the ball with one foot on the floor and then jump (often splitting two opponents and other times just getting past a single opponent with a *Mother-may-I* leap) and land simultaneously on both feet, from that landing the player may not have a pivot foot.
I understand that much of it. But these days the players seem to be taking their allotted 2 steps (after gathering the ball), then landing on both feet, then jumping off of two feet for their shot. In the past when a player gathered the ball and left the floor after his second step--regardless of whether the last step was off of one foot or two--he had to get rid of the ball before landing again.

The jumpstop move seems to allow a player to take his 2 steps and land (on 2 feet) without it being a violation. It seems like a clear travel to me, but that's not how it's usually called. I'm just trying to understand why the 2-steps-then-jumpstop isn't a violation.
This is a lot easier to demonstrate than describe, but, just to focus on the matter of taking 2 steps, which is not legal, what's generally happening is that the player is picking the ball up ("gathering" - it sounds so hippie-psychedelic) ON THE BACK FOOT, then stepping on to the front foot, then jumping off that foot on to a two footed landing. Violation.

This happens at full speed, of course. Sometimes I see it in a kind of gestalt way - just see the whole move and recognize it's non-standard nature, and sometimes - when I anticipate that the player will be making the move - I look specifically for the timing of when the ball is picked up.
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