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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:54pm
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In 2-person, you don't go across to referee the ball in the post, you go across to referee the post while T is busy with other things...if the ball is in the post, that's T's primary, but if - like I said earlier - T has the ball in the deep corner and a bunch of other players over there, there's no way T can cover all of that...and even in close-down, I'm still looking at nothing but the defenders arse - not much of an angle there.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:17pm
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In 2-person you DO go across to referee the play in the post. If the ball comes below the free throw line extended, and I rotate over, and square up, I'm telling the Trail "I have the play. Go off-ball."
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
In 2-person, you don't go across to referee the ball in the post, you go across to referee the post while T is busy with other things...if the ball is in the post, that's T's primary, but if - like I said earlier - T has the ball in the deep corner and a bunch of other players over there, there's no way T can cover all of that...and even in close-down, I'm still looking at nothing but the defenders arse - not much of an angle there.
I know people that would disagree with your opinion on why you should not cross or cross. That is the problem I have for the mechanic because there are a lot of different reasons why people feel you should go ball side. Not everyone is big on this mechanic and I personally do not care either way. I think it is a personal decision with your crew and the officials that decides to use it. I do not see a reason to rotate just because people are on one side of the court. The issue for me would be why they are on the other side of the court. I know in 3 Person where rotation is required for the system to work, you still do not rotate just because more people are on one side of the court (unless you work NCAA WomenÂ’s and NBA mechanics). You rotate when it is clear the ball is going to stay in that area or a team is right-handed or left handed and there is no doubt post play on that side is going to be essential to this offense. I do not think that makes this veteran a bad officials or stubborn. I think it makes this officials not buying into this philosophy.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:52pm
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Check the Fed Mechanics Manual

The mechanic is in the NFHS Official's Manual.

There is no rotation. The lead coming across the key is not to force the Trail to switch sides.

When the ball, on the Trail side of the key, drops below the free throw line extended, the Lead can jump to the far side of the key and watch the impending post play/jockeying. When the jockeying stops or the ball goes back above the free-throw line, the Lead goes back to the other side of the key.

When the lead jumps across, they should take a position near the lane line, maybe a step more, looking back through the key, between the jockeying players - not towards the ball.

If the ball is passed into the post, now the Lead is in great position and it is his primary call.

IT is not like 3-man. No rotation; Trail stays where he is at.

It is a great mechanic. And should be used. The lazy veteran mentioned in the original post should retire. At a minimum he should quit perpetuating obsolete, poor mechanics to younger officials.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
In 2-person you DO go across to referee the play in the post. If the ball comes below the free throw line extended, and I rotate over, and square up, I'm telling the Trail "I have the play. Go off-ball."
I would agree with your first sentence (since that's pretty much exactly what I said)...as for the rest of your post, I'm not so sure I agree...so you are saying that you go across as L, and then pick the ball up out in the deep corner (say, outside the 3 pt. line)??

Now that, I think, could cause some coverage problems...
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:03pm
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Tony,

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by "rotation." All this term means is movement during live a ball. I did not suggest that the Trail does anything. The Lead is doing a rotation when they move to the same side as the Trail. Whether you use the term "coming across, rotation" or "ball side mechanic, either way not everyone agrees with the practice and when to do it. The NF as usual gives very little information to describe when you use the mechanic and when you do not use a "rotation" from the Lead position. The NF does say that each state can come up with guidelines when to use the mechanic (page 22, #204 near the bottom) and that this mechanic should be used sparingly.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:07pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
In 2-person you DO go across to referee the play in the post. If the ball comes below the free throw line extended, and I rotate over, and square up, I'm telling the Trail "I have the play. Go off-ball."
I would agree with your first sentence (since that's pretty much exactly what I said)...as for the rest of your post, I'm not so sure I agree...so you are saying that you go across as L, and then pick the ball up out in the deep corner (say, outside the 3 pt. line)??

Now that, I think, could cause some coverage problems...
That was my thinking as well - you do not change areas of coverage, just what direction your looking at it. The L still has the paint, and the area below the FT extended opposit the T. But when the L comes over, they are just looking at the paint from a different angle. The T could still have something outside the paint, directly in front of the L, because that is still T's area.

It's not something I do often, but it has helped to get that better angle. Just remember to pre-game areas of coverage, so the T doesn't go to sleep in their area just because the L is close by.

[Edited by M&M Guy on Jan 26th, 2006 at 03:16 PM]
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
In 2-person you DO go across to referee the play in the post. If the ball comes below the free throw line extended, and I rotate over, and square up, I'm telling the Trail "I have the play. Go off-ball."
I would agree with your first sentence (since that's pretty much exactly what I said)...as for the rest of your post, I'm not so sure I agree...so you are saying that you go across as L, and then pick the ball up out in the deep corner (say, outside the 3 pt. line)??

Now that, I think, could cause some coverage problems...
That was my thinking as well - you do not change areas of coverage, just what direction your looking at it. The L still has the paint, and the area below the FT extended opposit the T. But when the L comes over, they are just looking at the paint from a different angle. The T could still have something outside the paint, directly in front of the L, because that is still T's area.

It's not something I do often, but it has helped to get that better angle. Just remember to pre-game areas of coverage, so the T doesn't go to sleep in their area just because the L is close by.

[Edited by M&M Guy on Jan 26th, 2006 at 03:16 PM]
Agreed - we see it the same way. Now, I would ask if you were a Yankees fan, but that would be getting off-topic and we can't do that so never mind.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Agreed - we see it the same way. Now, I would ask if you were a Yankees fan, but that would be getting off-topic and we can't do that so never mind.
You're right, we don't want to (coughMeaYankeefan?Barf!cough) get off topic. We need to stick (coughGoCubbies!cough) to basketball-related items.

Thank you for your cooperation.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 04:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:
Originally posted by rockyroad
Agreed - we see it the same way. Now, I would ask if you were a Yankees fan, but that would be getting off-topic and we can't do that so never mind.
You're right, we don't want to (coughMeaYankeefan?Barf!cough) get off topic. We need to stick (coughGoCubbies!cough) to basketball-related items.

Thank you for your cooperation.
So just to summarize here - we both agree that (coughtheYankeessuckcough)you come across the key to (coughgoSeahawkscough)ref the post play, not (coughJR'sagrumpyoldpoopcough)necessarily the ball(coughChuckandIarebothshortcough).

And before Dan can tell us, we'll both shut-up now.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 04:59pm
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