4 flagrants

[Nevadaref]

I had a first for me tonight. I had one player punch another in the face during the game. This resulted in 4 flagrant technical fouls.

Situation:
A1 dribbling. B1 fouls A1 near midcourt and both go to the floor. While getting up A1 pushes/shoves B1's head. B1 responds by jumping up and punching A1 in the face.
B6 and B7 coming running off the Team B bench onto the court, but the players are separated and the situation controlled before they can become involved.
Here's what we did:
B1 is charged with a personal foul. 8th team foul, 1-1 is due.
All four kids are charged with flagrant Ts and DQ'd. A1 for the shove, which caused B1 to respond by fighting. B1 for the punch. B6 and B7 for leaving the bench and entering the court but not participating.

Each coach also came onto the court, but they grabbed their players and were nothing but a help to the situation, so we overlooked any penalties to them. Team B coach was charged with 1 indirect technical foul for the two players which left his bench and he sat the rest of the contest.
Team A received one team foul and Team B was assessed four on the play.


I still can't believe that we had four flagrant technicals and only one punch was thrown. I guess we were fortunate. It could have been a lot worse.

[ChuckElias]

How many FTs did you administer? Did you consider the shove and the punch to be double or false double?

Glad it didn't turn into something worse. Just trying to get a feel for how it worked itself out.

BTW, good job of not T'ing the coaches. I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure they were beckoned to help break things up.

[Nevadaref]

We shot the 1-1 and then only 2 more FTs due to the team members coming off the bench. We ruled the other two fouls a double and awarded no FTs due to that.

The coaches weren't beckoned, but they were welcomed.

It didn't work out well at all. Many, many, many, fouls were committed by both sides including an intentional in the last few minutes of the game. We called them all and shot more FTs than I could count.

A1's is contesting his suspension for receiving a flagrant, and I think that he has a case. Perhaps by rule we could have/should have only given him a regular T. After being cold-cocked just he walked away. Amazing self-restraint.

Please see my other thread on 4-18-2 and give your thoughts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
A1's is contesting his suspension for receiving a flagrant, and I think that he has a case.

I don't. He started that whole mess by shoving an opponent in the head. The head! An unsporting act followed by retaliation? Hey, gotta teach the little sh!t a lesson imo.

[Nevadaref]

That was my partner's contention and that is why we charged the flagrant. However, we both agreed that if B1 hadn't hit him, A1's T would not have been flagrant. His shove just didn't rise to the level of violent or savage.

The opponent committed the violent act.

It doesn't seem right to me to make the penalty depend upon the actions of the opponent. I'm really struggling with that.

[TimTaylor]

Wasn't my game, but there was a wild one here a couple weeks ago.

Varsity girls game - after a foul call A1 & B1 start going at it, then A2 jumps into the fray. A's entire team leaves the bench & goes onto the court, plus fans start getting involved.
AD takes one look and calls 911...

End result: a bunch of fans ejected by police, officials toss B1 & eight players from A that either participated or left the bench, leaving them only 3 players. Game is called, B wins by forfeit (2-0 as A was ahead at the time). By state rules all all ejected players get an additional one game suspension, leaving A with 3 elegible players for their next game.

[Junker]

Thanks, I feel better about my crappy game last night. It could have been worse. Sounds like you handled it well.

[TimTaylor]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
That was my partner's contention and that is why we charged the flagrant. However, we both agreed that if B1 hadn't hit him, A1's T would not have been flagrant. His shove just didn't rise to the level of violent or savage.

The opponent committed the violent act.

It doesn't seem right to me to make the penalty depend upon the actions of the opponent. I'm really struggling with that.

Doesn't matter - by rule, even if A1's action had been only verbal, it precipitated the flagrant response by B1 and both get flagrants.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by TimTaylor
End result: a bunch of fans ejected by police, officials toss B1 & eight players from A that either participated or left the bench, leaving them only 3 players. Game is called, B wins by forfeit (2-0 as A was ahead at the time).

Why didn't A keep playing with three players?

[TimTaylor]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Why didn't A keep playing with three players?

Not sure who made the actual decision, but given the general mayhem I suspect the Ad & police had a lot to do with it. The league AD ordered the forfeiture and suspensions, and it was upheld by the state.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by TimTaylor
By state rules all all ejected players get an additional one game suspension, leaving A with 3 elegible players for their next game.

Don't you need 5 to start a game? If for the next game they only had 3, don't they forfeit that game as well?

[CaliOne]

I agree with Jurassic, you did right by tossing A1 for pushing B1 in the head, which started the fight. Started the fight. From you post, I didn't gather that B1 started the fight by the foul.