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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 10:04am
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Question

All:

If any one of you knows how your state assigns and ranks officials for your state tournaments, please email the process to me. I am trying to gather information on how other states assign their tournaments. I know how Indiana does it...but I would like to know how other states accomplish this. I realize this might take a little time to actually get me an accurate/detailed response, but I would REALLY appreciate any help you could get me!

You can send your response to [email protected]

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds! Tony, Mick, JR, and similar old vets, I'd REALLY like to hear from you!
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 10:16am
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Still haven't figured out CO

But in Kansas, the coaches recommend you. I have yet to figure out Colorado's good 'ol system! I believe that the activities association assigns the games (DUH!) Well, if they never see you work then you never get assigned the state tournament. I don't live in the Denver area so the chances of them seeing me work are slim to none! Unless... there is another way they assign! And, there probably is! Can anyone help ME out and explain CO?
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 10:49am
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In MA, each coach puts 5 or 10 (I can't remember which) acceptable officials on a list. The tournament assignor then draws from that pool of officials, I guess, trying to match "acceptable" refs with the coaches that listed them.

That only goes so far, tho, b/c once you get to the state semis, the teams are matched with teams from another area of the state. Those coaches have never seen our refs, and our coaches have never seen their refs. So I don't know how it works for those matchups.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 11:30am
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It's ten.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
In MA, each coach puts 5 or 10 (I can't remember which) acceptable officials on a list. The tournament assignor then draws from that pool of officials, I guess, trying to match "acceptable" refs with the coaches that listed them.

That only goes so far, tho, b/c once you get to the state semis, the teams are matched with teams from another area of the state. Those coaches have never seen our refs, and our coaches have never seen their refs. So I don't know how it works for those matchups.
It's ten. League commissioners also are invited to provide lists which the assignor may draw on.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 01:13pm
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In Montana, the selection is made by the MOA office using a combination of the following; Coaches ballot, individual pool rankings and MOA office input. They can take into account geographical limitations.

Also, an official can only work the same classification for two consecutive years at the same level, (District, Divisional, State).

In practice, it comes down to Coaches selection and who is available. MOA office will break any ties based on availability and the local pool rankings, which may be different from pool to pool.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 04:36pm
Jerry Blum
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bump this up. I'd like to see some other responses.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 08:05am
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In VA, at least in northern VA, the coaches have absolutely no input as to who goes to state. Coaches do not rate officials, but a coach can "scratch" 2 officials at the start of the season. According to my assignor, he sends a listing of 10-12 officials to the state office and the state makes the decision.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:45pm
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In Illnois, each coach and fellow official can rate an official based on observation. Additionally, each coach, conference assignor, and officials association submits a Top 15 list to the state office. Using all of that info., the IHSA uses a mathematical formula to rank every official in the state (1 to whatever). The higher you are ranked, the more rounds of play you are assigned to. The initial rounds are geographically assigned (meaning you are working at Regional sites in your immediate area).

FYI - in 04-05:
+ 69% of coaches submitted ratings for games played.
+ Losing coaches rated (on a scale of 1 to 5 - 1 being outstanding) game officials 2.68 VS. winning coaches 2.5 (only .18 difference - not a significant difference).
+ Only 2.96% of coaches felt a "call or no call" decided a game.

If interested, I can forward a PowerPoint presentation that the IHSA put together that explains, in detail, the process. Shoot me an email: [email protected] and I'll send it to you.
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 01:57pm
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Our rating system is only one or two things that make up our playoff considerations. We have a power rating that uses the following.

1. Promotional level
2. Part 1 Exam score
3. Previous tournament experience
4. All ratings (coaches and certified officials)
5. Number of varsity games worked (based on percentage)
6. Top 15 Lists (associations, assignors and schools)

Each of these have a total of 5 points you can get for achieving certain levels (total 30 points)

Also many more things are factored in like geographic area, promotional levels, (Certified first, Recognized second, Registered last), clinic attendance, years of experience, boys and girls basketball worked and even class you have worked.

The PowerPoint Presentation is a better resource, but there is much more to our system than ratings.

Also the IHSA next year will change the clinic requirements for playoff consideration. It will be a must that you attend a Class 2 Clinic in order to work any post season.

Peace
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:34pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Also the IHSA next year will change the clinic requirements for playoff consideration. It will be a must that you attend a Class 2 Clinic in order to work any post season.

Peace
Jeff, is a "Class 2" clinic the same as the 6 hour clinic (vs. the 4 hour clinic), or is this something different? Also, do you mean an official needs to attend this clinic every year, as opposed to once every 3 years now? I thought there was already the 6 hr. clinic requirement to work post-season, so what will be the specific change for next year?
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Jeff, is a "Class 2" clinic the same as the 6 hour clinic (vs. the 4 hour clinic), or is this something different? Also, do you mean an official needs to attend this clinic every year, as opposed to once every 3 years now? I thought there was already the 6 hr. clinic requirement to work post-season, so what will be the specific change for next year?
I do not know if they are going to change the classification in basketball, but I do know that there are going to make Class 2 Clinics required if you want to work any post season. We will see at when the next Official's Handbook comes out or you might be able to find out on the IHSA website looking at Board decisions. I just know that this was told to a group of people that were in a committee meeting about a week ago. If I did not make it clear, this will be apart of the power rating. So you will get more points for attending a "Class 2" clinic as opposed to just being a requirement. So the power rating will change. I am not sure exactly how, but this will be added to the equation.

Peace
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Also the IHSA next year will change the clinic requirements for playoff consideration. It will be a must that you attend a Class 2 Clinic in order to work any post season.

Peace
Jeff, is a "Class 2" clinic the same as the 6 hour clinic (vs. the 4 hour clinic), or is this something different? Also, do you mean an official needs to attend this clinic every year, as opposed to once every 3 years now? I thought there was already the 6 hr. clinic requirement to work post-season, so what will be the specific change for next year?
My uderstanding is that if you attend a clinic in the same year, you'll get 5 points; if you attended the prior year, you'll get three points; if you attended 2 years prior, you'll get 1 point. If you haven;t attended, you'll not be eligible.

It rewards officials who attend clinics every year instead of just the minimum (one every three years).

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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 03:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins


My uderstanding is that if you attend a clinic in the same year, you'll get 5 points; if you attended the prior year, you'll get three points; if you attended 2 years prior, you'll get 1 point. If you haven;t attended, you'll not be eligible.

It rewards officials who attend clinics every year instead of just the minimum (one every three years).

The way it was explained to us at this meeting it would not be quite like that. At least that is way Dave said. I guess the board was uncomfortable to go that far. So somehow this will be used, I just was unclear how exactly it would be used.

Peace
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins


My uderstanding is that if you attend a clinic in the same year, you'll get 5 points; if you attended the prior year, you'll get three points; if you attended 2 years prior, you'll get 1 point. If you haven;t attended, you'll not be eligible.

It rewards officials who attend clinics every year instead of just the minimum (one every three years).

The way it was explained to us at this meeting it would not be quite like that. At least that is way Dave said. I guess the board was uncomfortable to go that far. So somehow this will be used, I just was unclear how exactly it would be used.

Peace
Well, count me in the category of liking the idea as Bob posted it. If an official is serious about wanting to advance, they need to put in the time every year, not just sit back and say "I've done this for 20 years; it's my turn to do the state tournament now." The IHSA has already started down this path by having different clinics; a 4-hr. for those who just want to keep their license, and a 6-hr. for those who want to work post-season. This idea would take it a step further in allowing those who put in the effort every year to be rewarded a little more than those who do it every 3 years. Makes sense imo.

And, go Cubbies. (Sorry, Dan made me do it. It's true...it's true...)
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 04:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy


Well, count me in the category of liking the idea as Bob posted it. If an official is serious about wanting to advance, they need to put in the time every year, not just sit back and say "I've done this for 20 years; it's my turn to do the state tournament now." The IHSA has already started down this path by having different clinics; a 4-hr. for those who just want to keep their license, and a 6-hr. for those who want to work post-season. This idea would take it a step further in allowing those who put in the effort every year to be rewarded a little more than those who do it every 3 years. Makes sense imo.

And, go Cubbies. (Sorry, Dan made me do it. It's true...it's true...)
I agree that this would be a great idea, and that is what everyone at this meeting would like, but I guess that was not as far as they were willing to go on this issue. I attend camps every single year and I either attend or I participate in about 5 or 6 every year. I think attending camps helps you get used to the subscribed system (3 person for us) that is used and you get to hear from different voices about what you need to know and how you have improved or digressed. I think attending camps should be rewarded, it just seems like they are not going to give extra points for attending every year. I think they will stay with the 3 year requirement. Instead the IHSA just will give more points for attending a Class 2 (or 6 hour clinic) instead of attending a Class 1 Clinic (or 4 hour/which ever classification they hold on to).

Peace
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