Ref in the stands

lmeadski · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:15pm

this happened over this past weekend. I was a bit stunned, but, being a first year ref, maybe this is normal protocol.

Frosh game, sparse attendance. From my right, I hear a fan yell out, "Hey ref, they're over the back. Use your whistle." I just happened to get a chance to look into the stands (ensuing dead ball) and, lo and behold, it was a ref from our association! I found out later his nephew was playing.

Is there any "code" or "rules of conduct" that says you shouldn't verbally hoot on another ref from the stands? And, is it something I should tell my association about, or approach the ref in private, or just let it go?

stosh · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:21pm

Being new, you may want to get his "sage advice" on where to find "over the back" in the rule book.

Junker · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:31pm

Let it go unless you have to toss him. There is a percieved, unwritten rule, that most officials will not criticize another official publicly. I certainly would never do it. It's not very professional, especially if people around him know he's an official.

MichiganOfficial · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:32pm

The world of officiating is a brotherhood and should be treated as one. No official and I mean no official has any right to publicly ridicule another official at any time.
This needs to be addressed by a senior official of your association.

bgtg19 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:41pm

Can I suggest that, as a new official, you should NOT bring this up as a way of pointing out or targeting any particular offender? Either the fan/ref is already known for this behavior or s/he is connected enough in the association for their to be future awkward moments.

At the end of the season, bring it up in a general way and ask: What are the expectations for officials when they attend games at which they are not working?

Junker · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:50pm

MichiganOfficial,
Great signature! I'm a huge Joe D. fan ever since I read "Summer of 49" by David Halberstam (sp?). That's a great quote I wish more athletes would adopt.

SmokeEater · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:20pm

I have seen first hand demonstrations of the sort. I understand that even officials can get caught up in the emotion of the game, especially if they are passionate about the game and have some personal interest in the outcome. I don't condone the verbal outbursts if they are meant to embarass another official. Personally I would have appreciated him coming to me after the game or at half time to give CONSTRUCTIVE comments, ( My sit was with a veteran official).

Jurassic Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 04:03pm

Our association has a written Code of Conduct that specifically forbids doing something like that. If caught, at the minimum the official will be fined. It cuts this kind of unprofessional nonsense out.

Works for us.

tjones1 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 05:24pm

Very unprofessional. However, it's extremely shocking he used "over the back." I certainly hope he doesn't call this, although it sounds like he does.

new2hoops · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 05:40pm

I just started reffing basketball, so I go to a lot of games to watch the veterans. . I am very good about sitting quietly when it is a judgment call, but it is much harder to sit quietly when the refs do not know the rules. I saw a game the other week where the refs called a foul and when the coach complained, one called a techical on the coach. They proceeded to shoot the technical foul shots and then the common foul shots and made the players line up to play off the miss. The coach was trying to tell them that they get the ball after the technical, but the refs would not listen. The refs did not know me, and I chimed in my two cents.

It sounds easy to say "shut up" but when you watch supplosed veterans (and these guys were ancient) make such a basic mistake, it is not so easy.

bgtg19 · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tjones1
However, it's extremely shocking he used "over the back." I certainly hope he doesn't call this, although it sounds like he does.

I went to a small college game last week where one of the officials, on multiple occasions, said "over the back" and "reaching" when she made her calls. She reported the fouls to the table with the proper mechanics (push and illegal use of hands), but at the spot she was using the fan's language of choice.... Too bad. She was a really good official otherwise. (Another way of saying that is: I should have so few problems!)

bgtg19 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by new2hoops
It sounds easy to say "shut up" but when you watch supposed veterans (and these guys were ancient) make such a basic mistake, it is not so easy.

Welcome to the forum, new2hoops! I'd like to suggest that whether it is "easy" or not depends on your motivation. If someone said: "I'll give you $1 million dollars if you don't say a word during this basketball game," I am confident that you would walk away with $1 million of easy money. Now, if someone says: "I'll appreciate it if you be a credit to the profession/avocation of officiating and refrain from making comments during this basketball game," if that's not easy for you, it's only because being a credit to the profession/avocation is not as strong a motivator for you. Perhaps you disagree that refraining from comment is good, but in any event the reason why it is not easy is because you lack the motivation.

As a former individual who was in the it's-not-easy-to-stay-quiet-in-the-face-of-incompetent-officials camp, let me invite you to come over to the it's-really-fun-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-watching-and-perhaps-learning-from-my-colleagues camp. It takes time to make the trip, but there's a lot of satisfaction once you do.

Again, welcome.

SMEngmann · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 07:09pm

I think the original situation is very serious, especially in the case of a rookie official being chided by a veteran in the stands. It's hard enough to recruit new guys, but this is the type of thing that drives people who start officiating away. I don't know what the penalty should be, but it should be addressed.

PAT THE REF · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 07:34pm

I was the R in a 4th grade girls CYO game. 7 to 8..... Very close game, low scoring, let alot of travels, etc... go...

My parter was a 1st year basketball ref, and I think we did a very good job considering it was the "little girls."

After the game, one of the little girls dad's walks down from the stands --- im changing my shoes and hear "this guy is horrible... So I look up and the guy is talking to the next set of officials ready to take the court (IABBO guys).

So I ask him what did I do wrong... he said everything

He asked me my name --- I told him

Then I asked who are you... He says - hes been reffin for 18 years..... "and im gonna call tom - you shouldnt be reffin these games - your not good enough"

Needless to say Tom is my assigner for CYO, and I had no problems in the past with officials, coaches, players, etc...

No complaints etc... So my question is - what should I do? Call Tom? Let it go?

Thanks

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 07:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PAT THE REF
After the game, one of the little girls dad's walks down from the stands --- im changing my shoes and hear "this guy is horrible... So I look up and the guy is talking to the next set of officials ready to take the court (IABBO guys).

So I ask him what did I do wrong... he said everything

He asked me my name --- I told him

Then I asked who are you... He says - hes been reffin for 18 years..... "and im gonna call tom - you shouldnt be reffin these games - your not good enough"

Needless to say Tom is my assigner for CYO, and I had no problems in the past with officials, coaches, players, etc...

No complaints etc... So my question is - what should I do? Call Tom? Let it go?

Call Tom. I can't believe that any assignor wants one of his officials to conduct himself publically like Mr. 18-Year Official did. It's just completely wrong. It's unprofessional and unethical as hell.