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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 03:16am
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I stayed to watch the boys varsity tonight. Big rivaly game, stands are packed, the band is rocking, it's so loud that sometimes you can't hear the whistles or even the horn. The game is a barn burner from beginning to end. My team (the guys in stripes) are more than equal to the task. They are, in fact, putting on a mechanics clinic (in the best sense of that phrase) and I shoulda been scribbling notes feverishly.

With about 8 seconds to go, the visitors are trailing by two, but their worst free throw shooter ties it up with two huge free throws. It's pandimonium in the visitor's section!

Home team pushes it up the floor, point guard launches a running jumper from behind the arc that lands and sits on the flange FOREVER before finally dropping into the basket. The horn goes off, and the entire home team student section rushes onto the floor.

The trail is waiting to leave the floor but his partner is engulfed in the sea of students. I'm starting to get a little worried about him, frankly. This goes on for nearly a minute. Finally the PA announcer comes on and tells the students to clear the floor because there is time remaining on the game clock.

As soon as the basket went, the lead had glanced at the visiting bench, seen the head coach's time-out request, then had the presence of mind to look at the clock. So after clearing a few hundred jubilant students from the floor, they put 0.8 seconds back on the clock and the visitors get one last chance to tie it up again. They throw up a desperation shot that misses the mark.

The home crowd goes nuts and the band is rocking louder than ever!

Is there a better way to spend a Friday night?
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 05:15am
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Hmmmm.....Should the home team be charged with a T for their crowd prematurely storming the court?

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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 08:50am
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Why was less than a second put on the clock?
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 11:25am
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Maybe the time out was granted at 1.8 seconds?
1.8 seconds less the 1 second for lag time would be .8 seconds? Just a guess.

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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 12:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ace
Maybe the time out was granted at 1.8 seconds?
1.8 seconds less the 1 second for lag time would be .8 seconds? Just a guess.

Yes, but the post says, "they put 0.8 seconds back on the clock." You can't "put 0.8 seconds back on the clock."

If the clock had .8 seconds on it when the TO was requested, then lag time kicks in and the game is over.

If the clock had 1.8, as you speculated, and ticked down to 0:00, then by rule, 1.8 would have to be put back on the clock.

Bottom line, if the clock ticked down to 0:00, then there's no way that I can think of that you can put less than 1.1 seconds back on the clock, which is why Chuck asked the question.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 12:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Bottom line, if the clock ticked down to 0:00, then there's no way that I can think of that you can put less than 1.1 seconds back on the clock, which is why Chuck asked the question.
Unless they didn't know the rules well, and did it wrong.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 03:04pm
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If the official saw the request, blew the whistle, THEN LOOKED AT THE CLOCK and time kept running, the correct thing to do BY RULE is put back the time that the official saw and it does not need to be more than 1 second.

None of that info is in the original post.

And BITS, there is a better way to spend a Friday night. Working that game.

[Edited by blindzebra on Jan 21st, 2006 at 03:06 PM]
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 04:14pm
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I'm going with 5.10.1D on this play, which means all the time would have to be put back on the clock. Since .8 would be less than 1 second, based on 5.10.1D, it would not be possible to put .8 back up.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 04:24pm
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Unless they didn't know the rules well, and did it wrong. [/B][/QUOTE]

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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm going with 5.10.1D on this play, which means all the time would have to be put back on the clock. Since .8 would be less than 1 second, based on 5.10.1D, it would not be possible to put .8 back up.


5.10.1

COMMENT: Timing mistakes which may be corrected are limited to those which result from the timer's neglect to stop or start the clock as specified by the rules. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official's signal is heard and/or seen clearly. One second or the “reaction” time is interpreted to have elapsed from the time the signal was made until the official glanced at the clock. The additional three seconds which subsequently ran off the clock is considered a timing mistake.

What we do know was that the official saw the request and THEN looked at the clock.

We don't know if the official blew his whistle or not, but if the sequence was TO, whistle, look at clock by rule lag time is interpreted as the time it took the official to look at the clock, so it does not need to be a second.

The one second of lag time is only locked in as one second if the official was looking at the clock at the time the whistle blows, which is what situation D says. That did not happen in this case as written.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 06:52pm
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Once again time for one of my crusades:

When tenths of a second show on a game clock, the official should be allowed to put back the exact amount of time that s/he saw, regardless of when s/he first looked at the clock.

I just got an email from one of the Rules Committee members. (I met him at an IAABO meeting.) He was asking for rule change suggestions. I'm going to send him an email recommending that the FED adopt the ruling that came down from the NCAA this year on this very subject.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 09:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Once again time for one of my crusades:

When tenths of a second show on a game clock, the official should be allowed to put back the exact amount of time that s/he saw, regardless of when s/he first looked at the clock.

I just got an email from one of the Rules Committee members. (I met him at an IAABO meeting.) He was asking for rule change suggestions. I'm going to send him an email recommending that the FED adopt the ruling that came down from the NCAA this year on this very subject.
And are you going to suggest getting rid of 3-4-9 and 3-4-10?!
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 09:47pm
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Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Is there a better way to spend a Friday night?
Actually, yes. But I wouldn't know. I have no life.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 10:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm going with 5.10.1D on this play, which means all the time would have to be put back on the clock. Since .8 would be less than 1 second, based on 5.10.1D, it would not be possible to put .8 back up.


5.10.1

COMMENT: Timing mistakes which may be corrected are limited to those which result from the timer's neglect to stop or start the clock as specified by the rules. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official's signal is heard and/or seen clearly. One second or the “reaction” time is interpreted to have elapsed from the time the signal was made until the official glanced at the clock. The additional three seconds which subsequently ran off the clock is considered a timing mistake.

What we do know was that the official saw the request and THEN looked at the clock.

We don't know if the official blew his whistle or not, but if the sequence was TO, whistle, look at clock by rule lag time is interpreted as the time it took the official to look at the clock, so it does not need to be a second.

The one second of lag time is only locked in as one second if the official was looking at the clock at the time the whistle blows, which is what situation D says. That did not happen in this case as written.
Yes, but how do we KNOW that only 1 second ticked off? I don't deny that that's a possibility but the truth is we don't know what happened.
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Old Sat Jan 21, 2006, 11:14pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm going with 5.10.1D on this play, which means all the time would have to be put back on the clock. Since .8 would be less than 1 second, based on 5.10.1D, it would not be possible to put .8 back up.


5.10.1

COMMENT: Timing mistakes which may be corrected are limited to those which result from the timer's neglect to stop or start the clock as specified by the rules. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official's signal is heard and/or seen clearly. One second or the “reaction” time is interpreted to have elapsed from the time the signal was made until the official glanced at the clock. The additional three seconds which subsequently ran off the clock is considered a timing mistake.

What we do know was that the official saw the request and THEN looked at the clock.

We don't know if the official blew his whistle or not, but if the sequence was TO, whistle, look at clock by rule lag time is interpreted as the time it took the official to look at the clock, so it does not need to be a second.

The one second of lag time is only locked in as one second if the official was looking at the clock at the time the whistle blows, which is what situation D says. That did not happen in this case as written.
Yes, but how do we KNOW that only 1 second ticked off? I don't deny that that's a possibility but the truth is we don't know what happened.
And I don't know for sure which order it happened in. I didn't ask enough questions to get all the details. But let me throw out another consideration. The way the crowd errupted, I could barely hear the horn. What if the whistle cannot be heard? I don't suppose that changes anything? Still have to allow for lag time, and if it's see request, whistle, look at clock you can still count that as the lag time, but if it's see request, look at clock, whistle, but there is less than one second you have to account for lag time and let the clock run out?

BTW, does this have anything to do with why they stop the clock after made baskets in the NCAA? To allow for these kinds of time out requests without having to fuss with the clock?

[Edited by back in the saddle on Jan 21st, 2006 at 11:17 PM]
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