Partner Kick a Rule

IREFU2 · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 12:18am

I was working a boys varsity game tonight and in warmups a kid grabbed the rim and pulled it down and it snapped back to its orginial position. Of course my partnet claimed he didnt see it and the head coach of the home team approached us and said I saw A1 grab the rim and pull it down. So I said, looks like we are starting the game with a Technical Foul and the visiting coach has to sit. So my partner, the R, went to the visiting coach and told him the situation. The coach told him that he didnt believe that was a T as long as he didnt dunk. I told the both of them that a player can not grasp the rim during warmups, intermission or while the officials are in jurisdiction of the court. Of course the second part of that is unless he or she is protecting herself, which wasnt the case. The coach said are you (my partner) 100% sure and he (my parnter) said no. I told them I was 100% sure. Long story short, my partner decided that since he wasnt sure, we were not going to charge the visiting team with a T and start the game normal. I was kicking this in my head the whole first half. Then at half time, he looked at the rule book and I was right. He apologized. Any comments on this situation?

Kelvin green · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 12:47am

I am trying to get this right but who was watching what team?

The home coach comes to you, tells you he saw the play, and you said that it looks like it was a T?

Did anybody really see the play?

Your partner did not see it? did you?

The way you wrote the situation it does not appear you saw it and he said he did not see the situation completely. If that was the case it was something you did not see.

If it was a kicked rule oh well, wont be the first one anyone ever kicked.

rainmaker · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 01:33am

1) If you saw the play, it's your call, and you make the final decision. He can come to you with information, but then he has to let you decide what to do.

2) If you didn't see the play, then no one saw it and it can't be called, no matter what the other coach saw.

3) Don't kick yourself all through the first half of the game for one missed call. That's my gig and you're intruding on my patent.

SmokeEater · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 08:41am

Call what you saw, not what you think you saw.

IREFU2 · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 08:56am

I saw the play and relayed the information to my parnter who was the R for the nigth. I was watching the home team and happened to glance over at the visiting team and saw it. The home team coach saw the play and was wondering also if it was a "t" and didnt care either way. But no big deal, just getting some input from the board here.

Junker · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:29am

If it's not your side, don't call it. This is one that could be handled by a quick talk with the player rather than the T. If the other coach asks, I'd say I didn't catch exactly what the player did, but talked to the player about staying off the rim.

IREFU2 · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:32am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
If it's not your side, don't call it. This is one that could be handled by a quick talk with the player rather than the T. If the other coach asks, I'd say I didn't catch exactly what the player did, but talked to the player about staying off the rim.

That would be lying and I have had an evaluator sitting in the stands in another game that it happened and he immediatly came down and asked if I saw what happened. I would rather be safe than sorry.

ChuckElias · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
If it's not your side, don't call it.

Nah, I don't agree with that. You're out there to observe both teams. Who's the shooter for White? Who's gonna handle the ball for blue? Are we gonna have play above the rim tonight?

You're "assigned" to one team, but you ought to be watching both to get a feel for who does what. If you see the violation, you should handle it. (That doesn't mean necessarily calling the T if it's borderline; but you handle it.) You don't ignore it, b/c you're supposed to be watching the home team.

IREFU2 · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
If it's not your side, don't call it.

Nah, I don't agree with that. You're out there to observe both teams. Who's the shooter for White? Who's gonna handle the ball for blue? Are we gonna have play above the rim tonight?

You're "assigned" to one team, but you ought to be watching both to get a feel for who does what. If you see the violation, you should handle it. (That doesn't mean necessarily calling the T if it's borderline; but you handle it.) You don't ignore it, b/c you're supposed to be watching the home team.

I agree, we are a team of officials and if my partner saw the same, I would expect the same.

Junker · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:02am

I agree with checking out the other team, but in the situation, why go looking for a T? The way it was described, yes by rule it's a T, but it could have been avoided with a warning. Not in the rules, but good game management to me.

ChrisSportsFan · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:05am

If you saw it, call it. This isn't the same as staying in your primary during the game. I'd prefer to never start a game with freethrows but in your case, 1/2 the gym probably saw it and by not calling it does not help your integrity. I do not see this as something an R can overrule.

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
I agree with checking out the other team, but in the situation, why go looking for a T? The way it was described, yes by rule it's a T, but it could have been avoided with a warning. Not in the rules, but good game management to me.

A warning for an obvious pre-game dunk? Please tell me you're kidding.

That isn't good game management. That a lack of testicular fortitude on an official's part.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
I agree with checking out the other team, but in the situation, why go looking for a T?

I didn't say to go looking for a T, did I? In fact, I said it's not necessarily a T, just handle it. My objection was to your contention that you should ignore it, even if you saw it, b/c you're supposed to be watching the other team.

If, on the other hand, half the gym saw it and the other half heard the rim rattle, then you have to have the T, even if you're not "looking" for one.

tomegun · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
I agree with checking out the other team, but in the situation, why go looking for a T? The way it was described, yes by rule it's a T, but it could have been avoided with a warning. Not in the rules, but good game management to me.

A warning for an obvious pre-game dunk? Please tell me you're kidding.

That isn't good game management. That a lack of testicular fortitude on an official's part.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!! !

TimTaylor · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
1) If you saw the play, it's your call, and you make the final decision. He can come to you with information, but then he has to let you decide what to do.

2) If you didn't see the play, then no one saw it and it can't be called, no matter what the other coach saw.

3) Don't kick yourself all through the first half of the game for one missed call. That's my gig and you're intruding on my patent.

Still wishing you'd given the HB coach her 2nd, eh Juulie? :-)