Partner Kick a Rule

[brianp134]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

A warning for an obvious pre-game dunk? Please tell me you're kidding.

That isn't good game management. That a lack of testicular fortitude on an official's part.

Junker, that is not good game management. IMO this rule should have been enforced.

[Junker]

Here's why I say ignore it. First off, we don't know that it was all that obvious. Did the player literally grab the rim and yank, or get a couple of fingers on it and snap the rim a little? One official passed on it, the other official is on the other side of the court. By rule, there are a number of technicals we can call all the time. We have players flopping and coaches complaining almost nightly and we don not enforce the rule to the letter. We use some management skills and talk to the coaches and players. Yeah, if the kid is grabbing the rim with 2 hands and yanking hard or hanging on the rim, you go get it, but in the post it didn't sound that severe. That's why I said talk to the kid and move on. As we say in a number of posts, you have to be there to see it. On another note, I would never discuss a rule with a partner with coaches involved. It is not going to help you as a crew for the night.

[Edited by Junker on Jan 5th, 2006 at 02:12 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Junker
Here's why I say ignore it. First off, we don't know that it was all that obvious. Did the player literally grab the rim and yank, or get a couple of fingers on it and snap the rim a little? One official passed on it, the other official is on the other side of the court. By rule, there are a number of technicals we can call all the time. We have players flopping and coaches complaining almost nightly and we don not enforce the rule to the letter. We use some management skills and talk to the coaches and players. Yeah, if the kid is grabbing the rim with 2 hands and yanking hard or hanging on the rim, you go get it, but in the post it didn't sound that severe. That's why I said talk to the kid and move on. As we say in a number of posts, you have to be there to see it. On another note, I would never discuss a rule with a partner with coaches involved. It is not going to help you as a crew for the night.

An official saw it. End of story. That's one call that should never be ignored. Management skills have nothing at all to do with this particular situation. It is NOT and never has been a judgement call. It is NOT and never has had anything to do with advantage/disadvantage either.

Junker, nothing personal, but you can make up reasons from here to next year on why you shouldn't call this particular play and I'll still disagree with you. This one is simply an absolute no-brainer imo. We just disagree.

Btw, if you thought it didn't meet the definition of a "dunk", then what can you possibly go and say to that player anyway? "That wasn't a dunk so don't do it again"?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
if you thought it didn't meet the definition of a "dunk", then what can you possibly go and say to that player anyway? "That wasn't a dunk so don't do it again"?

"Hey, that was pretty close to a dunk. Don't make me decide, ok?"

[Junker]

Nope, I never take anything personally here on the board. We're here discussing game situations and on this one, depending on what the situation looked like, I will fully admit I might be wrong with the warning.....but, as Chuck's post read, I have had pregame situations, as I'm sure a lot of us have, where a player has been up around the rim, maybe even touching the rim and we talk to them about it. That was my point. I also don't think any situation is served well when officials are disagreeing with a coach present. If you're not sure, go talk as a crew, come to a decision, and go back to the coaches. Having one official tell coaches it was a T and then the R not calling it is definitely not a good situation.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Junker
Here's why I say ignore it. First off, we don't know that it was all that obvious. Did the player literally grab the rim and yank, or get a couple of fingers on it and snap the rim a little? One official passed on it, the other official is on the other side of the court. By rule, there are a number of technicals we can call all the time. We have players flopping and coaches complaining almost nightly and we don not enforce the rule to the letter. We use some management skills and talk to the coaches and players. Yeah, if the kid is grabbing the rim with 2 hands and yanking hard or hanging on the rim, you go get it, but in the post it didn't sound that severe. That's why I said talk to the kid and move on. As we say in a number of posts, you have to be there to see it. On another note, I would never discuss a rule with a partner with coaches involved. It is not going to help you as a crew for the night.

[Edited by Junker on Jan 5th, 2006 at 02:12 PM]

I was seen by me. The player pulled the rim all the way down and it snapped back into position with a loud clunk. Just grasping the rim is a "t" accourding to Section 3 -

ART. 4 . . . Grasp either basket during the time of the officials' jurisdiction, dunk or stuff, or attempt to dunk or stuff a dead ball prior to or during the game or during any intermission until jurisdiction of the officials has ended. This item applies to all team members.
EXCEPTION: A player may grasp the basket to prevent injury.

Like I said before, you may kick a call, but never a rule!

[Junker]

If you saw it and he yanked it, by all means get it. In your original post I thought it sounded as if the other official passed for a reason. I would encourage you to talk to your partner and come to an agreement before you tell a coach it's a T and then have your partner not administer it. You guys are out there together. If you can't convince him he's wrong, don't sell him out to a coach before the game even starts. Swallow it and have a talk with him using the rules book (like you did) at halftime. Just my opinion of course.