Jump stop?

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by PAOfficial
This is ironic because we just discussed this at our last meeting, and I am still having difficulty seeing it.

I understand and am fine with the jump stop. No problem. Its when the dribble stops part that I am having trouble seeing. I have played and officiated for years, but still have difficulty visioning a player stoping his dribble AFTER the jump stop procedure starts.

Any (more) help with this?

I would suggest focussing on when the player ends the dribble (picks up, or 'controls', the ball). If the player is ON his/her front foot when the ball is picked up, he or she may not pivot after landing. If the player is in the air - having jumped off of one foot - pivot after landing on two feet is permissible.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by SmokeEater
"Lately" mean its becoming more and more prevalent in the games I work. Why the critical tone to the thread it was answered and all is fine. Thanks

Not meant in a critical way. Just surprised.

[refTN]

Good thread first of all. Secondly if you are having trouble with this don't sweat it at all and don't make it too big of a deal. As soon as you see a jump stop coming and it happens look at the player's feet. There is going to be a little delay in you looking down so if the foot is in the air I would just give the benefit of the doubt of the player being in the air when he/she gathered the ball. In your delayed look you see the player's foot on the floor I would determine the ball is gathered before his foot left the ground.

Also I know it looks weird and I miss it as much as anbody, but upon the gather of the ball after the player has left the ground, he may pivot and in the case of a player leading with one foot right after the other and in advance of the other it is not a walk but it looks like a walk especially if you don't know the rules.

Originally posted by refTN
Also I know it looks weird and I miss it as much as anbody, but upon the gather of the ball after the player has left the ground, he may pivot and in the case of a player leading with one foot right after the other and in advance of the other it is not a walk but it looks like a walk especially if you don't know the rules.

Let me see if I have this right....it isn't a walk when they don't land simultaneously, only if they gather the ball after the player has left the ground, correct? If they land "one-two" after starting the move with the foot on the ground, it is a travel.

[refTN]

Originally posted by PAOfficial

Let me see if I have this right....it isn't a walk when they don't land simultaneously, only if they gather the ball after the player has left the ground, correct? If they land "one-two" after starting the move with the foot on the ground, it is a travel.

You got it, but just don't judge this too hard. If you have a close one-two landing with the player gathering the ball before he left the ground and the feet land side by side next to each other without one foot in advance of the other, I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't let him/her pivot.

[tomegun]

refTN, I think you are being a bit too loose with this. More times than not - many more in my experience - the player has NOT left the floor before he does the jump stop.
I used to do it without a lot of vertical jump because I used it to get to a spot. I would jump to where I wanted to go on the floor. Many players use it at the end of a move with a lot of up (more up than to a particular spot). In my case, I would either have the ball directly in front of me with both hands or position the ball however I needed to so I could avoid the defense. Either way, my dribble has ended as I was jumping. The other things players do is loop the ball in a huge arc as they come down on two feet. This is done after the dribble has ended - before the jump stop began.
These are just my observations and I would call an additional step a travel. This is one area where the NBA mentality must be taken out because they view traveling differently.

[Junker]

Doesn't the NFHS have a pretty good video on jump stops and travelling? I seem to remember someone posting about it. I've been meaning to check into buying it, but it hasn't happened yet.

[refTN]

Tomegun, I have said this somewhere else on the forum, but there is absolutely no difference in the ruling of a walk in the NBA all the way down to the NFHS ruling. In the rule book and officials' manual for the NBA it is just explained with better detail and easier to understand format.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by refTN
Tomegun, I have said this somewhere else on the forum, but there is absolutely no difference in the ruling of a walk in the NBA all the way down to the NFHS ruling. In the rule book and officials' manual for the NBA it is just explained with better detail and easier to understand format.

Sorry, you are incorrect. The NBA travel rule is certainly differernt than the NCAA and NFHS rule. There are moves in the NBA that are, by rule, legal that are a violation in other levels.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Sorry, you are incorrect. The NBA travel rule is certainly differernt than the NCAA and NFHS rule. There are moves in the NBA that are, by rule, legal that are a violation in other levels.

The NBA has a travel rule? I thought that was one of them urban legends. You know, where everybody says they know someone who has actually seen traveling called in an NBA game, but they've never actually seen it themselves.

Gee, learn something new every day.......

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 7th, 2006 at 07:18 AM]

[refTN]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Sorry, you are incorrect. The NBA travel rule is certainly differernt than the NCAA and NFHS rule. There are moves in the NBA that are, by rule, legal that are a violation in other levels.

Camron could you please give me an example because I know the NFHS, NCAA, and NBA rulings on traveling and I can't think of one that is legal in one area and not legal in the other.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by refTN

Camron could you please give me an example because I know the NFHS, NCAA, and NBA rulings on traveling and I can't think of one that is legal in one area and not legal in the other.

Example: Airborne player catches a pass/dribble and lands on the left foot followed by the right foot such that the two feet are side by side with neither in advance of the other. In NFHS and NCAA, the pivot foot, by definition is the first to land (left). If an NFHS or NCAA player lifts that left foot and returns it to the floor, it is traveling. In the NBA, the player has the choice of pivot...can lift either foot and return it to the floor (but once chosen, has to stick with the same pivot foot).

NBA rule 10 Section XIV
d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.
e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.

Also, it doesn't appear to always be traveling to fall to the floor while holding the ball in the NBA.

h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.




[Edited by Camron Rust on Jan 8th, 2006 at 04:14 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Additionally, in HS and NCAA, there is no pivot foot after a jump stop (or hop-stop or whatever we want to call it). A1 catches the ball, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands on two feet simultaneously. At that point, A1 may not pivot.

However, in the NBA, the "landing on two feet" is the second "count", and A1 is allowed to pivot.

[refTN]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Example: Airborne player catches a pass/dribble and lands on the left foot followed by the right foot such that the two feet are side by side with neither in advance of the other. In NFHS and NCAA, the pivot foot, by definition is the first to land (left). If an NFHS or NCAA player lifts that left foot and returns it to the floor, it is traveling. In the NBA, the player has the choice of pivot...can lift either foot and return it to the floor (but once chosen, has to stick with the same pivot foot).

NBA rule 10 Section XIV
d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.
e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.

Also, it doesn't appear to always be traveling to fall to the floor while holding the ball in the NBA.

h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.


[Edited by Camron Rust on Jan 8th, 2006 at 04:14 AM]

I wasn't even thinking about the falling down with the ball as part of it, but you are right about that one, but isn't the example you used where we bring into account the spirit and intent of the rule. if a kid lands with two feet one right after the other and not in advance of the other, why not just give him the benefit of the doubt and say he lands with two feet? That is what I was taught. Not to nit-pick.

[refTN]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Additionally, in HS and NCAA, there is no pivot foot after a jump stop (or hop-stop or whatever we want to call it). A1 catches the ball, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands on two feet simultaneously. At that point, A1 may not pivot.

However, in the NBA, the "landing on two feet" is the second "count", and A1 is allowed to pivot.

It depends on the gather in both leagues whether you can pivot or not. If a player ends on the count of two in the NBA there is no pivot. If you end on the count of one you may pivot.

In college if you virtually gather the ball while in the air and land with both feet simultaneously you may pivot. If you gather it with one foot on the floor, and jump stop you may not pivot or land with a one-two count. Although I don't need to be telling you about the college rule, but I do know the NBA rule.