Help a coach/ref

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by biz
JRut...I'm in MA...these were IAABO officials which would use the IAABO interpretation. I am also an IAABO official and I received no other interpretation of the rule at my interpretation meeting.

There is no IAABO interpretations. IAABO interpreters interpret NFHS rules. Obviously, they can also wrongly interpret NFHS rules. They have before.

However, if IAABO is your state governing body, you may have to go by one of their wrong interpretations.

Confused?

[Badger05]

[/B][/QUOTE]

You might want to read the interpretation from the NFHS.

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

I don't like it either, but it is a technical foul.

To Biz, I would suggest that you let the assignor know. It's not going to do you any good (and you know this from being a referee) to get into an argument on the court over the issue. [/B][/QUOTE]

Mmmm.... this crow tastes pretty good. I wasn't aware of the NFHS interp. Sorry Biz. After I posted originally I thought about making the player leave the visual confines of the playing area to change uniforms, but I could think of no other situation where that would be the case. Now I know. However I may not apply it that way if the situation ever arises in a HS game.

[Rick82358]

Excuse me, I was refering to directing a play to leave the playing area to change the Jersey.

[bgtg19]

Originally posted by IREFU2
I dont know what is worse, Coaching/Officaiting or being a player/referee. I found that I couldnt do both and had to give one of them up. So I gave up playing. You may want to do some soul searching too in the matter.

I may not have understood this correctly but, FWIW, I think it is helpful for coaches to have officiating experience and I think it is helpful for officials to have coaching experience. Not absolutely *necessary*, of course, but it can be helpful.

I would not at all be supportive of the suggestion (if it was made) that you, biz, need to decide between being a coach or being an official. I would wholeheartedly support the suggestion, however, that you need to give up officiating during games where you are coaching and you need to give up coaching during games where you are officiating. Just give it up. Be free. You might even discover that you are a happier and more contented coach and official!

I think the suggestion, made earlier, to your original question -- how should an official's lack of rules knowledge be approached during a game -- was the right one. Say (if JV), or have your head coach say (if varsity), to an official, politely and without undue demonstration: "I believe that there may have been a misapplication/misunderstanding of a rule. Could you talk about it briefly with your partner(s)?" Then live with whatever the answer is (even an incorrect one) and get back to coaching.

[Blind & lovin' it]

[/B][/QUOTE]

I dont know what is worse, Coaching/Officaiting or being a player/referee. I found that I couldnt do both and had to give one of them up. So I gave up playing. You may want to do some soul searching too in the matter. [/B][/QUOTE]

Gave up playing because of internal conflict?!?! Really?!?! Please tell me it was really aging knees or expensive gym fees! I agree wholeheartedly that your local pickup game is a significant downgrade from anything you ref, but this is basketball - everybody likes to play basketball!

[Ref Daddy]

There is a black and white rule - jersey off in view of court - it's a Technical.

As illustrated above, the player was by rule to leave the confines of the court to remove a jersey.

That said I suspect the crew was concerned about a player with blood all over their jersey. Probably felt sorry for the kid. I've seen it. Rubber gloves appearing from the bench, players inspecting each other for blood on them, first Aid kit amkes an appearence, Mom standing up in the stands covering her mouth, Dad screaming for a flagrent.

Crew should have T'd. if they did not, it is their call. It's the "give an inch and they take a mile".

You said you don't challenge "judgement calls" but in effect you are in the reverse.

The technical should have been called but IMHO it is an Administrative Technical that had little to do with the outcome of the game. Report it and let it go.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by biz
JRut...I'm in MA...these were IAABO officials which would use the IAABO interpretation. I am also an IAABO official and I received no other interpretation of the rule at my interpretation meeting.

I tend to disagree with JR about this but it would not be the first time that has happened. It is very possible that your state gave greater details on how to handle this. I know my state told us what would be acceptable and not acceptable. If they did not give you an interpretation, then you have to go with the interpretation of the rule.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I tend to disagree with JR about this but it would not be the first time that has happened It is very possible that your state gave greater details on how to handle this. I know my state told us what would be acceptable and not acceptable. If they did not give you an interpretation, then you have to go with the interpretation of the rule.

I said "However, if IABO is your state governing body, you may have to go by one of their wrong interpretations.

Where did we disagree?

[biz]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy


Crew should have T'd. if they did not, it is their call. It's the "give an inch and they take a mile".

You said you don't challenge "judgement calls" but in effect you are in the reverse.

The technical should have been called but IMHO it is an Administrative Technical that had little to do with the outcome of the game. Report it and let it go.

I disagree Ref Daddy, it is not the crew's "call" an official's job is to enforce the rules of the game. The rule explicitly says that this sitch is a T. Therefore it is the referee crew's job is to apply the rule. I'm glad though that you would, in this case, give the T.

I did not want to get into the impact on the game because I think that it's irrelevant to the post, but since you brought it up...The fact that they didn't call the T certainly did NOT cost us the game alone but, the two shots and the ensuing posession COULD have cut a 6 point deficit to 1 with 1:46 remaining in the game.

I do agree with your parting shot though. I think it needs to be reported and I definitely need to drop it after that.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Rick82358
Excuse me, I was refering to directing a play to leave the playing area to change the Jersey.

If this situation comes up in a game, I would not tell a player that they must leave the gym. What I will indicate to the coach/player is that they are not allowed to change the jersey in the gym. It's their choice where they go (if they leave at all) to change the jersey.

To me, it's a liability issue - same as how I will never tell anyone that they have to remove piercings or other adornments.

[Red_Killian]

Biz, My philosophy is I want to get the call correct. If I make a mistake on a rule interpretation and the head coach points it out to me in such a way it makes me and/or partner realize our mistake, I've got no problem with changing the call. If it happens later, after the fact, I've got no problem with admitting I was wrong. We ALL mistakes (officials, coaches, players, fans) the best of us learn from our mistakes.

[Rich]

Originally posted by biz

I disagree Ref Daddy, it is not the crew's "call" an official's job is to enforce the rules of the game. The rule explicitly says that this sitch is a T. Therefore it is the referee crew's job is to apply the rule. I'm glad though that you would, in this case, give the T.

I did not want to get into the impact on the game because I think that it's irrelevant to the post, but since you brought it up...The fact that they didn't call the T certainly did NOT cost us the game alone but, the two shots and the ensuing posession COULD have cut a 6 point deficit to 1 with 1:46 remaining in the game.

I do agree with your parting shot though. I think it needs to be reported and I definitely need to drop it after that.

While the rule is pretty clear, I have to admit that I find it distateful that you would be LOOKING for such a technical foul to be called. Not sure why, though.