Expect the Unexpected

[nukewhistle]

My trail umpire partner calls a "T" on Team A's head coach. The technical is administered and play resumes to team A's bench area and the ball goes OOB on my sideline. Team B's ball.The head coach gets up and I warn him that he has lost his privilege to stand up and he must be seated. No 10-4-4c,d,etc. My partner comes over and tells me that the coach can still have the coaching box privilege.I inform him at halftime that you can't make up rules but he refuse to acknowledge using the excuse of it's pre-season,etc. I decided not to escalate the issue as I had to ref another half with him. Anyhow I never expected this! How should I address this to my association etc?

[zebraman]

Let it go. If a report was written every time a referee who doesn't read the rules screwed up, your assignor would drown in paperwork. Those who blow a rule and then make up a lame excuse for it are the type that everyone can see through pretty quick. The word will get out about your partner anyway. If it bugs you too much, ask your local board to talk about the proper procedure after a coach T at the next general meeting.

Z

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Find a reason to whack the coach a second time, and just get him the hell outta there so you don't have to deal with your idiotic partner.

[som44]

If it really was a pre season game/scrimage let him coach--that is what the pre season is for--I would tell him that in a true game he would have to be seated but if this was just pre season I would let him stand and coach.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebraman
Let it go. If a report was written every time a referee who doesn't read the rules screwed up, your assignor would drown in paperwork.

From an assignor's standpoint, I can't agree with that, Z. Most assignors I know want to be aware any time an official is mis-applying a rule that badly or doesn't have the testicular fortitude to take care of bidness. They want to know so that they can do something about it. You don't want one goober calling the game according to his own personal philosophy and all of the other officials calling it by the book. That'll give an assignor nothing but a helluva lot more headaches and problems. Jmo.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by som44

If it really was a pre season game/scrimage let him coach--that is what the pre season is for--I would tell him that in a true game he would have to be seated but if this was just pre season I would let him stand and coach.

Hell, I'd rather enforce the hell out of it in the pre-season. YOu let em get away with it now, he'll think he can get away with it later, no matter WHAT you told him at the time. He'll still break loose wih, "But last time..." on the next crew. Sit his @$$ down!!

[tmp44]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

Hell, I'd rather enforce the hell out of it in the pre-season. YOu let em get away with it now, he'll think he can get away with it later, no matter WHAT you told him at the time. He'll still break loose wih, "But last time..." on the next crew. Sit his @$$ down!!

I think we need a feeling for what "pre-season" here is. If it's a scrimmage, coaches, at least in my area, are permitted to walk all around the court to help their kids. IMO, that's what scrimmages are for. If a coach gets out of hand, then it's taken care of, but I have never give a coach, nor have I ever heard of a coach being given, a technical foul in a scrimmage.

If this is a regular season, but non-conference game, then absolutely it's enforced. Sit his @$$ down.

[som44]

I took pre season to mean a scrimage--not sure what else pre season could mean. I agree I have never given or seen a coach get a T in pre season.

[nukewhistle]

To All
Thanks for all of the replies. It was a pre season Frosh boys tournament game, not a scrimmage.My partner had a terrible attitude prior to the first of two tourney games whinning about not getting varsity games, stuck with Frosh/JV, just the sh*t I need to hear in the pre-game.

And yes my assignor would definitely want to know who it was. I'll put it on our own forum "No names" after reviewing these replies.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by nukewhistle
To All
Thanks for all of the replies. It was a pre season Frosh boys tournament game, not a scrimmage.My partner had a terrible attitude prior to the first of two tourney games whinning about not getting varsity games, stuck with Frosh/JV, just the sh*t I need to hear in the pre-game.

And yes my assignor would definitely want to know who it was. I'll put it on our own forum "No names" after reviewing these replies.

Why do you think that this guy with the poor attitude and rules knowledge was working a Frosh game and isn't getting varsity games?

I think that your assignor already knows.

He probably wouldn't be working at all if there were a surplus of officials, but alas there never is.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by som44

I took pre season to mean a scrimage--not sure what else pre season could mean. I agree I have never given or seen a coach get a T in pre season.

Around here pre-season means scrimmages like your area. But in some places it means "not yet league" play. My local hs is in a league with 9 other high schools. Their non-league games might be against teams from adjacent leagues, or even from a different state. They they settle down to league play, and play all the teams in the league once or twice (I can't remember).

[Mark Padgett]

Why don't you whack your partner and make him sit down the rest of the game?

[Texas Aggie]

I worked with a guy once in a frosh double header early on a Saturday morning. He was *****ing before the games about not working any varsity games in 7 years of working. I quickly found out why. It would have been much better for everyone involved had he just stayed in bed and not come.

The classic example from that game was that I was the T going to L on a fast break, just behind the offensive guy going in for a layup. He was trailed by a defender 2 steps behind. About the time he's in mid-air laying the ball up, I hear a whistle. At first, I figured my partner had ran into the coach on the court and was calling a T. Nope. He called traveling -- on the guy 8 feet in front of me from the 28 foot line on the OPPOSITE side of the court (full size HS court). Aside from the fact that it was idiotic, the guy didn't come close to traveling.

Called my assigner when I got home and said in no uncertain terms that I would not work a game with that guy and suggested he do everything he could to encourage him to quit.

[Ref-X]

Originally posted by tmp44

I think we need a feeling for what "pre-season" here is. If it's a scrimmage, coaches, at least in my area, are permitted to walk all around the court to help their kids. IMO, that's what scrimmages are for. If a coach gets out of hand, then it's taken care of, but I have never give a coach, nor have I ever heard of a coach being given, a technical foul in a scrimmage.

If this is a regular season, but non-conference game, then absolutely it's enforced. Sit his @$$ down.

I not sure I understand why in an HS scrimmage a coach needs to be walking allover the court. That is what practice is for. I don’t know how it is in other places but the HS varsity coaches here coach these scrimmages with the same intensity as the regular season. There is just a lot more instruction.
I also don’t understand the logic behind Officiating scrimmages or preseason tournaments differently then any other game. I approach all games with the same professionalism. I feel you are doing a disservice to the players and coaches if you don’t. If a coach is doing something unsportsmanlike it should be handled accordingly. I have never given a T in a scrimmage but if I had to I would. And I do know of officials who have.

[dblref]

Originally posted by tmp44

I think we need a feeling for what "pre-season" here is. If it's a scrimmage, coaches, at least in my area, are permitted to walk all around the court to help their kids. IMO, that's what scrimmages are for. If a coach gets out of hand, then it's taken care of, but I have never give a coach, nor have I ever heard of a coach being given, a technical foul in a scrimmage.

If this is a regular season, but non-conference game, then absolutely it's enforced. Sit his @$$ down.

I was involved in a BV scrimmage a couple of years ago where one of the coaches not only received a T, but actually got tossed. He got the 1st. T when he jumped up, slammed his clipboard to the floor and yelled across the court at one of my partners...."You guys suck worse than any officials I have ever seen". Got tossed when he threw a bag of balls onto the court. Understand that his school suspended him for the first 4 games of the season.