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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:09pm
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If A1 is driving to the basket, can B1 set-up directly underneath the basket and take a charge?
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:12pm
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No rule prohibits that location.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:14pm
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Any player is entitled to any spot on the floor, provided s/he legally gets to that spot first.

So the answer to your question is that, in theory, a player can take a charge under the basket. In practice, however, many officials won't call it.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
No rule prohibits that location.
Is this one of those non-existent rules like over-the-back?

[Edited by djskinn on Nov 18th, 2005 at 02:02 PM]
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
No rule prohibits that location.
Is this one of those non-exisitant rules like over-the-back?
See Chuck's response.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:20pm
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Originally posted by ChuckElias
So the answer to your question is that, in theory, a player can take a charge under the basket. In practice, however, many officials won't call it.
Had this situation the other night and did not call a charge. Coach later asked if we were using "college rules" for that situation?
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Any player is entitled to any spot on the floor, provided s/he legally gets to that spot first.

So the answer to your question is that, in theory, a player can take a charge under the basket. In practice, however, many officials won't call it.
Many officials? Is that one of them IAABO thingys?

Why wouldn't anyone -except someone doing NCAA wimmen- call a charge under the basket if the defender had LGP and an airborne shooter knocked him into the third row?

There's degrees of contact. I don't think that you can make up a blanket rule to cover all of those different degrees. Jmo.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 12:54pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Many officials?
Many, many.

Quote:
Is that one of them IAABO thingys?
Nope. It's one of them "philosophy" things.

Quote:
Why wouldn't anyone -except someone doing NCAA wimmen- call a charge under the basket if the defender had LGP and an airborne shooter knocked him into the third row?
Because many -- yes, many -- officials subscribe to the philosophy that you can't defend the basket if you are directly under the basket. Therefore, it's not a legitimate defensive postition. Therefore, the defender shouldn't be "rewarded" by getting the charge call.

But you already knew all that.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Why wouldn't anyone -except someone doing NCAA wimmen- call a charge under the basket if the defender had LGP and an airborne shooter knocked him into the third row?
Dang, he beat me to it. I was going to throw in my two cents (now only worth about 3/4), that in NCAA-W, in the Appendix under "Legal Defense", it says, "A defender who establishes a position directly under the cylinder or behind the backboard when a dribbler becomes an airborne shooter is not in legal guarding position, regardless if she got to the spot first. Exception: When a dribbler takes a path parallel with the endline, the defender's position directly under the cylinder or behind the backboard is a legal guarding position." So, iow, in a "north-south" drive, the defender can't draw the charge under the basket, but could in an "east-west" drive.

So, I guess it's not a rules myth, depending on the rules set you are using. I agree with Chuck that there are many (ok, more than a few) who use this philosophy in NFHS games as well.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:17pm
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Good points guys, but I am still wonder how to call it? Is there a rule stating that a position under the basket isn't a legal guarding posion. How should we call it??
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:29pm
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Nate, as I said in my first post, in FED and NCAAM, by rule a player control foul should be called if the ballhandler (dribbler or shooter) contacts the defender in the torso and displaces the defender; even if the defender is directly under the basket.

You probably have to do what your assignor(s) tell you they want. But by rule it's a PC.
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
Good points guys, but I am still wonder how to call it? Is there a rule stating that a position under the basket isn't a legal guarding posion. How should we call it??
If you are doing a HS game, it's a PC foul (assuming the defnder had LGP and all that)...if doing an NCAA Women's game, it is either a no-call or a block based on their rule-set...if doing a NCAA Men's game, it's eiter a no-call or a PC foul based on their rules-set...if doing an NBA game, it's a block since they have the restraining circle...

Dang it - Munchkin #1 beat me to it!
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
No rule prohibits that location.
Is this one of those non-exisitant rules like over-the-back?
No such call as over the back. That is a street ball term and as long as the defender is not hindering verticality, then he can be over the back. Now, on the back is a differnce story!

[Edited by IREFU2 on Nov 18th, 2005 at 01:56 PM]
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:54pm
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Over the back is....

...really just coach- and fanspeak for "Our player, who was never really taught the proper fundamentals of boxing out, was just beaten badly for a rebound by a taller or more skilled opponent that out jumped him/her, so there had to be some sort of illegal activity involved because my child is a good player in our eyes."
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Old Fri Nov 18, 2005, 01:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by IREFU2
Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Quote:
Originally posted by mick
No rule prohibits that location.
Is this one of those non-exisitant rules like over-the-back?
No such call as over the back. That is a street ball term and as long as the defender is not hindering verticality, then her can be over the back. Now, on the back is a differnce story!
Yes, I know and referred to it as a "non-existent rule."

[Edited by djskinn on Nov 18th, 2005 at 02:01 PM]
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