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Been in this situation?
I arrive in the gym at good time, begins checking through ecuipment, I make sure there is 3 good balls at each teams bench, taking the best as game ball. Teams and partner arrive, he's reffed for 20 years. I talk to the speacher saying that I want to know if ther is to be player introductions. He says yes and I go talking to my partner saying that we should call the players of then make the presentations, then call 3 minutes left letting them finish warm-ups. That's all according to the book, he simply blows three minutes, common error, and the first he would do. The game starts and we're underway, this is two tight teams and I know the home team plays it quite rough. I end up as trail the guests going against home teams basket. The girl goes with her shoulder straight in the chest and I call the offensive foul, I turn around to report it, when he gets forward, simply pushes me away and insted call a blocking. So it goes on, I make calls, he doesn't make any for himself and continously shows that he thinks I'm wrong. At the end of qtr, home goes up lane, I'm ahead running backwards, at that time there is just one player behind, not having streanght to run, the time's running down and she shoots a panic shot from somewhere around 3, I call it two points, coach stands showing 3 points sign showing she thought it was a three, the qtr ends and she comes forward saying "3 points ref" (politly) I simple says, "I'm lead, it's his zone, then I make a motion with my hand towards the R". He says "He has to see it, I'm behind". I almost started screaming at him there, he doesn't care to run, and therefore he thinks I should see through 8 players and tell him if it were a 3 or not, it ends with an angry coach (with all right) and a tied score (2 points awarded). What would you do? How do you tell an R and much more excperienced ref he can't even call a junior game! Also, I'd like some tips, in 2 weeks I'm taking really small ppl, like 12 years, and I'm with another excperienced ref put up with total freshmen, took the basic course last week, have never reffed in their life. Got any tips on how to make a good teachers approch and not make their first game such a mess as mine were? And also, I've offcourse been put up with the worst of them all :P I'd be suprised if he new the diffrence between Lead and trail :S
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All posts I do refers to FIBA rules |
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Get in. Get done. Get out. You can't change that official. You can't make him learn the rules during the game. You can't force him to be a good partner. You can't make him run any faster. Just do the game as well as you can, and move on. If you know ahead of time that you will be working with a weak partner, you can have a good solid pre-game with him and hope that makes some difference. But if it doesn't, then you just have to work your game and get through it. Good luck.
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only! |
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btw, don't run backwards.
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
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Here's a couple of issues you may want to consider. Where I ref, you dont pull off players for introductions and then let them go back on to the floor for three minutes or warm-up. They finish warm-up, do player intros, and then you go ut and toss the ball. When you had the foul as trail, sounds like you had a double whistle, and you took the play without communicating. You have to communicate here- Maybe he took it because you werent suppose to take it. Where did the play start? Whose primary was it in when it started? Who had best look? Why on earth are you running backwards? Never Never Never! The end of quarter play sounds like it was in transition of somesort. Where did the ball start? and what time was left on the clock. Did you communicate who had last shot. In my games 5 seconds or more trail has shot. Less than 5 lead may have shot. It may have been your call in the first place. You called it two points. You must have seen something since you were watching it that gave you firm knowledge that it was a two since you scored it as a two. If I were a trail and you signalled a two, I would figure you saw foot on line and had exact knowledge. The when the coach asked me, I would tell him you called it a two since you did and that you saw something I did not. Did you ever figure that the experienced ref was right? You worried about getting a good game ball more than you worried about any pregame. No one cares how many balls there are especially at the visitors bench. Visitor never provides a game ball unless all the home ones are garbage. |
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Is this thread being posted on behalf of your partner?
That is what I was thinking.
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Never hit a piñata if you see hornets flying out of it. |
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Crazy..., try to remember these things:
1.You'll enjoy working with some partners and some you won't. Enjoy the good nights and be thankful for those partners. On bad nights do your best, keep your mouth shut, and get out. Look forward to the next game. We've all been there! 2. Long time veterans have much to teach you -- and sometimes it is through their decision to get lax or slack a little. But everyone can teach you something. 3. From what I gather from your post, you learned somethings you don't want to do AND you clearly made some mistakes yourself! I have a couple of long time veteran partners who are great "rule book" officials, but they truthfully have always had trouble making good calls. 4. Never disrespect an older and more seasoned partner. You'll lose respect from everyone you officiate with and it will come back to bite you in the rear end in a hurry.
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That's my whistle -- and I'm sticking to it! |
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Sounds like you and your partner didn't communicate well. When you're the new guy, don't assume you're always right. Ask questions. When I was starting, if I could tell a partner wasn't impressed with something I called, I'd go say, what did you think of...whatever it was. Then I'd Listen to what they have to say, if anything, and make a decision on whether or not I got it right. Sometimes I stood by my original call. Sometimes I got some food for thought that made me a better official. It's great to be confident in your ablities as an official, but there's always something new to learn or think about, no matter what level you work. Personally, that's why I enjoy it so much.
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First, remember that cv works under FIBA rules, so while it may look to us as though he got some rules or procedures wrong, it's possible that he's right and partner is wrong. Furthermore, when a new ref is struggling to deal with a lousy, but veteran, partner, we need to give him (I think cv is a him) some leeway. He feels frustrated, since he's trying to do things right, but he's getting stomped on, not corrected gently. How can he learn from a partner who shoves him out of the way to re-report a foul to the table? I think what you need to do, cv, is to find another ref in your area who you can talk to ahead of time about the various partners, and learn how to handle this situation in ways that are acceptable in your locale. This guy sounds like a hopeless cause. And what Chuck says is true. You gain nothing by discussing it with him. Just get in, do your best, and go home. If it's too egregious, you might think about discussing it with your assignor, but even that can be dangerous. Find a sympathetic, experienced mentor, and talk to him or her about everything you struggle with. It's the most productive use of your energy. |
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CV --
I went back and re-read your post, and I have some further advice. When you are the more experienced ref and you don't want to screw your brand new partner the way you think you got screwed, then the most important thing is to decide ahead of time how to react to certain situations. What will you do when you think he got a call dead wrong? You know you won't push him out of the way and change the call -- you already know you won't. But what WILL you do? What will you do when he wants you to bail him out of a jam? Decide now how you will handle it. How about when he misses a very obvious foul? What if he reports something wrong, or tries to fix the clock when he shouldn't or tells someone a wrong rule? If you think through some of these things, you'll be a long way down the road toward being a "Good Partner" -- the kind everyone wants to work with. |
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It'll take a while to write this reply :P
First, thanks, 11 answers is a lot more then I excpected. Quote:
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Just a note though, this R is known to decide for himself if it's a three or not, even if he's lead. This is not according to the book but he does that anyway sometimes. Something mostly coaches have been annoyed at. Quote:
He wasn't there when I did this, he arrived late. Regarding balls, it's common that the home referee toghter with the adult in responsibility of the gym takes care of the balls and such during games. Especially if the ref has nothing else to do. I am connected to the club who was home in this game. And usually visitors get mad at obne of 3 ppl when there is no balls for the warm-up (this is becuse it says in the swedish rules that the home team shall provide 3 balls for the warm up.) 1. Home coach. 2. home ref (not at me though, cause then they can end up with a T). 3. adult in responsibility of the gym. They shold be asking the one responsible, but usually they end up getting mad at the coach insted. Besides, why wouldn't I put this out? :P the gym was almost empty, half an hour left to the game, I could talk or do something productive, I made something productive (helped scorekepeer getting things sorted, put out balls, checked equipment, things like that). Quote:
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I'll try and find somebody to help me though, I know just he one, but I'm afraid I don't meet him to often but he's a great official. Quote:
And finaly, the big question *drums* Quote:
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"Always let the play come towards you when you're lead" one of the silver rules (only got 4 golden :P so I now name this a silver rule). I don't see why not :P This took a while to write, like I said:P
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All posts I do refers to FIBA rules |
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1. Inherent risk of injury to the knees, ankles and hamstring muscles. 2. If you run into someone backwards you'll most likely end up on your @ss risking even further injury. 3. You can run much faster looking over your shoulder than you can running backwards. Also, if you run into someone you'll absorb the impact with your leading shoulder and you'll have a better chance of staying upright. And when running this way you can always turn you head to get a look at where you're going. This is impossible if you run backwards.
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg |
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It is always better to run forward, and turn your head over your shoulder to watch the players. Just don't get into the bad habit of not watching the players as you run.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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