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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 01:15am
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At a local jr high, the girls team is coached by a husband and wife team. The wife is a teacher at the school and her husband is a volunteer, but he does most of the coaching. I have known these people as friendly acquaintances for several years, our kids have played ball together, but that was about the size of it. Last week early in a game, I hear the guy say "You can't call the game this way just because you hate me." I thought I had heard wrong, but he said it again. During the second quarter, I was at the table and he was six feet away, and he said pretty much the same thing. I was stunned, and said the first thing that came to mind. "______, if you wouldn't talk so much, maybe we'd all like you better."
In retrospect, not the most professional choice of words, but I was trying to keep it light and at the same time tell him I had heard enough. He continued to mumble about the calling throughout the game: "...no, he's not gonna call that for us...."etc. After the game he came to me out on the court, I was going to stay away from him. "It's not fair to the kids for you to call this way just because you hate me." I was somewhat annoyed by now, but thought I used some restraint and said, "You flatter yourself if you think I called anything because of YOU. If you feel this way maybe you should stay home next time and everybody would be happier."

Am I waaaay out of line? How would others have handled this situation?
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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 01:56am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Just an opinion.

Some would say you were. But it is Jr. High Girl's basketball. Who cares? I have learned at this level sometimes you have to put these coaches in their place. Now this is my opinion and someone will disagree, but coaches at this level act as if the world is going to fall on simple calls. They overreact to almost everything that happens. Sometimes you have to say things that you would never say during a HS game. I know during Grade School Football that I have worked the past few years, I would never say the things I do and the way I say them in a varsity football game. I think the best officials know how to adapt to different situations.

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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
At a local jr high, the girls team is coached by a husband and wife team. The wife is a teacher at the school and her husband is a volunteer, but he does most of the coaching. I have known these people as friendly acquaintances for several years, our kids have played ball together, but that was about the size of it. Last week early in a game, I hear the guy say "You can't call the game this way just because you hate me." I thought I had heard wrong, but he said it again. During the second quarter, I was at the table and he was six feet away, and he said pretty much the same thing. I was stunned, and said the first thing that came to mind. "______, if you wouldn't talk so much, maybe we'd all like you better."
In retrospect, not the most professional choice of words, but I was trying to keep it light and at the same time tell him I had heard enough. He continued to mumble about the calling throughout the game: "...no, he's not gonna call that for us...."etc. After the game he came to me out on the court, I was going to stay away from him. "It's not fair to the kids for you to call this way just because you hate me." I was somewhat annoyed by now, but thought I used some restraint and said, "You flatter yourself if you think I called anything because of YOU. If you feel this way maybe you should stay home next time and everybody would be happier."

Am I waaaay out of line? How would others have handled this situation?
I rhink what you said is a reasonable analysis of the situation, but I doubt that saying it out loud helped the situation. It sounds as though he heard someone recommend this as a way to "work the ref" and he's just trying it on for size.

During the game, right after he says it, say, "Coach regardless of your and my relationship, she whacked her good on the arm. That's always a foul." Or the traditional, "Are you accusing me of cheating?"

After the game, when he approached you, you might have said, "Is this something we're going to talk about, and come to an understanding? Or are you just jerking my chain (with a little smile)?" Or something else that indicates that you, in fact, don't hate him. Or if you want to just jump in feet first, "What makes you think I hate you?"

In any event, I'd put him on the "no" list with the assignor. They don't pay enough to put up with this kind of garbage.
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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 10:56am
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JAR, obviously you were not on as friendly terms with this jerk as you thought.

But, to answer your question, you should have T'ed his @ss up immediately. There's no reason for any coach to make it personal. Sadly the younger the players the more likely the "coach" will make it personal.
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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 12:57pm
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Red face

You could make up your own "Davism" for this - i.e.: "If you think my feelings for you are having an effect on this game, there's a simple way to remedy that. You're outta here. Problem solved."
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 11:46pm
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there's more

Starting that night after the game, in person and by phone, this guy proceeded to tell other coaches, principals, and my assignor that I hated him, and that anywhere I might be, his team would not go. My first thought was not to dignify this with a response, but after further review, I decided that I needed to know more. I went to the school and met with the principal and both coaches, and asked basically, "WHAT IS THE DEAL?" The coach proceeded to say, in a calm voice, that he did not think that his team was playing on a level field, and that this was unacceptable since it was because of my hatred for him. Let me get this straight: "You base all this on bad calling, and conclude that I hate you." He replied that he could live with bad calling, but not when it was for this obvious personal hate that I had for him, which was confirmed by the two remarks I made at that game. Over a few short days these comments had evolved (in his mind) to the point that I said after the game, among other things, "Yes, I do hate you." I asked, repeatedly, where this idea came from originally. He, repeatedly, failed to answer this question. Finally, he said that he was not out to cause me trouble and cost me money, and furthermore he was not out to "create a ruckus." (WHAT?) I told him that he had already caused me trouble and cost me money, and had indeed created quite a ruckus. This apparently caused him to take a step back. He asked if I thought I could call their games fairly in the future. I told him I could and would to the best of my ability, just as I always had. He thought a little while and said well, okay then, he'd call everybody back and tell them, in effect, NEVER MIND. He also said, among other things, "I'm gonna look like an idiot." Well..... It remains to be seen how all this is going to shake out, but I see myself as damaged goods now any way you look at it.
The biggest problem here is calling too many games where I know too many people too well. I probably will be kept out of games here close to home for who knows how long, which is certainly not a bad idea in itself, but I still find this whole incident unbelievable and unacceptable. The one thing I am sure of is that nothing is going to be done to this coach.

SO YOU THINK YOU WANT TO BE A REFEREE.
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Last edited by just another ref; Sun Jan 18, 2009 at 04:14am.
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Old Sun Oct 30, 2005, 11:58pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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You wonder why officials want nothing to do with JH basketball (or any sport for that matter)?

I hope stories like this one just show why folks that have worked a long time want nothing to do with this crap. If someone that you are friendly with thinks you are trying to get them, why even bother?

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Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 12:02am
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one more thing

Many years ago, I read something where a big name NBA official, Mindy Rudolph I believe, was addressing a group of people. He said that if a coach or player had an argument with an official in a restaurant the day before a game, the calling at the game would not be at all affected.
A voice spoke up from the crowd: "BS!" It was Wilt Chamberlain. Chamberlain laughed, "Mindy, you know that's a lot of bs." I've thought about this one a lot. I've always said if a coach had a personal problem with me, real or imagined, large or small, even if I said to him before the game, "Tonight I'm gonna get you," it would still be totally unacceptable to mention this in front of the kids. This was one of the last things I said to the coaches at this meeting. I also said, "Yes, there was something personal going on between us during the game, but only because you made it so." If either one had a significant response to this, it escapes me now.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 12:05am
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Re: Just an opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
...it is Jr. High Girl's basketball. Who cares?
This is the where we disagree. The answer is: the Jr. High Girls do, and their coaches, parents, etc. Therefore, we must care, or we should not be there.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 12:15am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Re: Re: Just an opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by just another ref
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
...it is Jr. High Girl's basketball. Who cares?
This is the where we disagree. The answer is: the Jr. High Girls do, and their coaches, parents, etc. Therefore, we must care, or we should not be there.
No we do not.

Remember, you are coming here complaining that a coach accused you of not liking him and taking something personal out on these kids. You can play that self-righteous line all you like, but you are the one complaining about it. You do not hear me talking about how a coach thinks what I did to him or her was personal do you?

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 02:20am
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If I had even met with this clown, the first thing I would have asked was where he got off challeneging your integrity, why he was blaming things on you, and wonder why he was slandering your name around the basketball community, and where his proof was.

I would have then been specific to the principal that the coach's behavior and slanderous remarks need to cease immediately. I would have demanded an apology in writing. reported the clown to who ever sanctions the league if any.

A follow-up letter to the principal would be a nice way to memorialize this. I would also threaten that if such slanderous remarks continue that you would hold the coach and the school responsible.

BTW I would have told him I had heard enough, and then whacked him. At the end of the game I would not even address him or validate any feelings.
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Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:21am
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Why add to the banter? It's impossible to argue with silence. Obviously, this guy's not much for integrity, so when you replied, you gave him something to twist for his own good.

Perhaps a situation where your partner could've stepped in and quieted the coach, "Coach I hear you all the way across the gym, so you've had your say. If you question my partner's integrity again, I'll T you".
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Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 09:38am
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I was taught, when a coach is mumbling quietly enough that only you hear, if you aren't going to T him, step back, give the stop sign, tell him that's enough so people can hear, and go on about the game. Also, I agree that this situation would be a good time for your partner to step in. That way the coach will learn that if he acts like that most officials won't "like" him.
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Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 09:50am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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I would not even have wasted my time having a conversation with a varsity coach, let along a JH coach. Let say you made $40 for the game. You would be losing money and time trying to ask a dumb coach a question about "why" he said something to you during the game. If you do not like what he said, then T his behind up and move on. There is no way I would not even waste my time with a level where the kids are supposed to be learning and if trying to get better. Many of these kids will not even play basketball when they get to HS games.

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Old Mon Oct 31, 2005, 10:50am
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Something just doesn't seem right about this whole story. It doesn't make any sense. There must be something that is missing. I would bet if the coach in the story were to tell his side, I would imagine it would be a lot different. This just seems way too odd.
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