familiarity breeds contempt

[Ref-X]

I also would not have wasted my time entertaining this guy with a private meeting either. Please!! As long as my assigner understands the situation and did not assign me any of his games, IÂ’m good.

As far as his in game comments I would given him the T, if that didnÂ’t shut him up I would give him his walking papers. Sounds like he might have wanted to be tossed anyway.

[rockyroad]

Wow...sounds like someone went to a lot of trouble to try to deal with a situation that can't really be dealt with...the coach is going to think/say whatever he/she wants to, and no amount of "meetings" will ever change that. Having said that, the one and only time I can remember a coach using that same line on me, I responded with something along the lines of "Coach, my personal distaste for you has nothing whatsoever to do with my calls. I would never punish your players because I dislike you." He sat down and shut-up...

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Smitty
Something just doesn't seem right about this whole story. It doesn't make any sense. There must be something that is missing. I would bet if the coach in the story were to tell his side, I would imagine it would be a lot different. This just seems way too odd.

I thought the same thing. It still doesn't make any sense to me. The coach had ample time to tell me his side of the story there is still something missing.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by just another ref


I thought the same thing. It still doesn't make any sense to me. The coach had ample time to tell me his side of the story there is still something missing.

Why do you care what his "side of the story" was?

This is a FREAKIN JUNIOR HIGH GIRLÂ’S COACH FOR GODÂ’S SAKE. If the assignor did not fire you, or other assignors would not hire you, let it go. Who cares why he thinks you do not like him. That is his problem. If he wants to use your dislike for him as a crutch every game, then he is the one cheating the kids, not you or any other official.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Why do you care what his "side of the story" was?

This is a FREAKIN JUNIOR HIGH GIRLÂ’S COACH FOR GODÂ’S SAKE. If the assignor did not fire you, or other assignors would not hire you, let it go. Who cares why he thinks you do not like him. That is his problem. If he wants to use your dislike for him as a crutch every game, then he is the one cheating the kids, not you or any other official.

Peace

3 reasons: 1. I have to live with these people. I can live with being thought of as a lousy official, but if someone wants to accuse me of being a lousy person without good reason, I see this as worthy of my attention.

2. $$$ We are paid travel based on the distance from the home of our association to the game location, regardless of actual distance traveled. Probably I am going to at least not be allowed to call close to home for a while. Now I will have to travel farther and be paid less.

3. Jr high is supposed to be the fun part. I have watched most of these kids play since their very first games, at ages 8 or 9. Watching them develop as players is something I consider priceless.

[Smitty]

Originally posted by just another ref

3 reasons: 1. I have to live with these people. I can live with being thought of as a lousy official, but if someone wants to accuse me of being a lousy person without good reason, I see this as worthy of my attention.

2. $$$ We are paid travel based on the distance from the home of our association to the game location, regardless of actual distance traveled. Probably I am going to at least not be allowed to call close to home for a while. Now I will have to travel farther and be paid less.

3. Jr high is supposed to be the fun part. I have watched most of these kids play since their very first games, at ages 8 or 9. Watching them develop as players is something I consider priceless.

You shouldn't have reffed a game where one of the coaches was someone you know personally, outside of basketball. That's a bad move. Turn those back. We aren't allowed to work schools where we have children or family attending or working at those schools, or friends who are on the basketball staff. It's a recipe for disaster. You should have never been working that game in the first place.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by just another ref

3 reasons: 1. I have to live with these people. I can live with being thought of as a lousy official, but if someone wants to accuse me of being a lousy person without good reason, I see this as worthy of my attention.

You seemed to be worried about it too much. A lot of coaches think the officials are terrible. That is really the case at the JH level. Why worry about a bunch of people that would never be allowed to coach a HS or college team?

Originally posted by just another ref
2. $$$ We are paid travel based on the distance from the home of our association to the game location, regardless of actual distance traveled. Probably I am going to at least not be allowed to call close to home for a while. Now I will have to travel farther and be paid less.

At least you will have your sanity.

Originally posted by just another ref
3. Jr high is supposed to be the fun part. I have watched most of these kids play since their very first games, at ages 8 or 9. Watching them develop as players is something I consider priceless.

Since when were they fun? Maybe in my first year and I did not know any better. That is why most officials stop working these levels. Or they work these levels because the money is good. I really do not know a lot of officials that like this level. That is not the case because of the players. The adults completely ruin these experiences with their pompous complaining and jawing as if the world is going to collapse if you do not call a foul.

Peace

[Rich]

WHACK.

Problem solved.

Get in, get done, get out.

It's basketball season for me again. Football is over.

[walter]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
WHACK.

Problem solved.

Get in, get done, get out.

It's basketball season for me again. Football is over.

I agree Rich. After reading all of these posts, I'm still baffled as to why you didn't just treat this guy like any other coach who made it personal or questioned your integrity. Whack him and if he keeps it up after that, see ya. The rules give you an easy response to these clowns when they cross the line. A number of officials here have given you sound advice. Your mistake was trying to communicate with this guy. Ref the game and deal with him appropriately. Then if need be, send a letter to his principal and AD with a copy to your association's officers. That's it. I would never have agreed to a meeting. If, however, I was forced to attend such a meeting by my State officials association, etc., I would not have attended without taking either my assignor or association president with me for support and representation. If you're being prevented from working close to home, then maybe something IS missing from this story. As for reffing JR High games, some us ref them to help out an assignor or organization or to be a senior person on the floor with a newer official. Either way, when I'm in that situation, I approach the game the same way I would a varsity game or college game. I have the same pre-game, etc. If a coach or player crosses the line, they are dealt with the same way. This guy was an absolute a@@ and you let him get to you when you should have just dealt with him and sent him packing if warranted. JMO.

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
A lot of coaches think the officials are terrible. That is really the case at the JH level.

It's hilarious to me that the JR. HIGH coaches (and parents) always feel this way, yet they rarely spend anytime coaching their players in the proper fundamentals of the game. This is where the kids should be learning how to play the game correctly, and mistakes should be expected. So many of these coaches (and parents) treat these games as if they are NBA/WNBA finals, instead of focusing on the teaching aspect at this level. Teach the kids how to play the game correctly!!!

A lot of times it seems the only ones trying to have fun and just playing are the players on the court.

[Edited by SeanFitzRef on Nov 1st, 2005 at 12:42 PM]

[9redskin4]

I can see some of your pain. It is often very difficult to officiate in small communities where you know most people. I live in a geographic area of AZ that has several small communities close together. Most people know each other, especially those involved in groups, like athletics. I had a similar situation but handled it a little differently. I was doing a Jr. High football game and it seemed to me that things went fine. The following day I got an anonymous phone call from someone telling me about a person from the visiting school. This person was the AD at the neighboring HS but had a son playing in the JH. Evidently, after the game he was talking on his cell phone and said some things that questioned my integrity, and basically said I was cheating. Remember, this person is an AD of a HS that is governed by the AIA (Arizona Interscholastic Association) and former official that is also governed by the AIA. This happened over a JH game that is not governed by the AIA. Anyway, after getting the information I immediately fired off an email asking this person to give me his side of the story (I always want to get the facts before working with rumors). In his response, he admitted to saying the things he had said the questioned my character. That is as far as I went with him. I forwarded the email to my AIA commisioner and let him handle the situation. I have been assigned to do games for that AD since and things have been professional. What is important to remember here is that when emotions get involved (friendships) it is better to step back and let an outside party handle the problems.

[JRutledge]

This is not a small community issue or a big community issue. This happens in big communities as well. If you see the same coach over and over again, it does not matter if you live in that community. Or better yet, what if you grew up around this person and you happen to be working their games. This can happen in the big cities as well as the small towns. The problem is that at this level coaches lose perspective. Hardly anyone is going to remember or care what they did when they were in JH to begin with. You do not have 20 year JH class reunions; you have 20 year HS reunions. This is just another example of adults trying to turn youth sports into a proving ground for athletic achievement. Kids are not going to get college scholarships in JH and coaches are not going to get big time college jobs (let alone big time HS ones either) based on the JH achievement in these games.

This is just another example of why officiating at these levels is many times not fun. If coaches expect they are going to get the best officials working these games they are sadly mistaken.

Peace

[SeanFitzRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
This is just another example of why officiating at these levels is many times not fun. If coaches expect they are going to get the best officials working these games they are sadly mistaken.

Peace

It's not so much that they expect 'veteran' officials, but they think their kids are playing the game at the highest level of basketball ever played. These kids are playing relatively well considering they might have one or two days of practice, and are sometimes playing three games in a day. We try not to 'over-officiate' the games and let a flow develop, yet we have to keep a tight enough rein on the players so no one gets hurt from rough play. Most of the kids don't really know a rebound from a rabbit, yet the coaches scream and whine as if their pensions or mortgages depend on it.

When reffing these games, I am using them to tune my skills for the upcoming HS season, especially on being disciplined to my primary. Most of the ridiculous comments that are made come from people (coaches and parents) that don't know the game or the rules, and I treat their comments as such. Just Ignore Them!! Work the game, not the comments. Have fun. Let them deal with themselves and their own insecurities. If you know you have no personal vendetta against the coach or team, it shouldn't concern you.

[JRutledge]

The issue for many of us is not whether the comments and behavior concerns us. The issue for me is it worth my time to be treated in a way that is not becoming of the event. If you like these games more power to you. I just think people around children would understand that these kids are watching. We always want to blame the pros for their behavior and the adults these kids actually know and interact with are saying things these kids can see for themselves. It is one thing to show the actions of someone these kids will never meet, it is quite another to see that behavior from a Dad or Mom that everyone on the team knows. Parents and teachers are real role models, not some guy on TV.

Peace

[SeanFitzRef]

JRut,

So true!!

I worked a game last Saturday, an 8th Grade girls B game. A father of one of the girls, who acted as an assistant coach, managed to get himself tossed out of the game for his overzealous commentary on the officiating.

His daughter dove on the back of a girl, while she is laying on the floor holding the ball. I call the foul, and he jumps up to complain as I am reporting, stating "She was going for the ball". I calmly give him a loud verbal warning that "I have heard enough, Assistant coach." I ask the head coach to keep him in line, as we have a good, close game going. Next trip down, the asst. coach keeps harping on the call, receives a tech from me (first one I have ever given in this league). My partner comes in during next dead ball and assesses a 2nd tech, because the guy just keeps complaining about the one call. He now has to leave the bench, and as he is leaving, their team and fans give him a standing ovation. For what??? He cost the team two points (out of 4 possible), and they lost by three. They have no clue about the game at all.