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Originally posted by Dan_ref
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Originally posted by ChuckElias
Well, I emailed Mark about this, b/c I felt it was too far afield even for an already off-topic thread, but since others are keeping it alive, here's just one entry I found online under "Jewish baptism". It's from MSN's Encarta, so I don't think that they have any ecumenical ax to grind:
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Jewish law provided for the use of water in ritual cleansing (see Leviticus 11:25, 40; 15:5-7); and Elisha commanded the Syrian commander Naaman to dip himself in the Jordan River to be cleansed of leprosy (see 2 Kings 5). Well before the 1st century ad, converts to Judaism were required to bathe (or baptize) themselves as a sign of entering the covenant (tebilath gerim). Some of the later prophets envisaged that Jewish exiles returning home would cross the Jordan and be sprinkled with its water to cleanse them of sins prior to the establishment of the kingdom of God (see Ezekiel 36:25).
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OK, so maybe for converts there's a historical conection but I'm 99% positive no such connection exists today (I know that's not your point). But someone born into the religion does not go through the same initiation ie no cleansing required.
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It's not really about "initiation into the club." Various interps give it varying amounts of potency from pure symbolism to pure operation. And it wasn't just for converts. There are a number of different baptisms mentioned in the Bible, and most of them are by Jews and for Jews.
I think you're right about there not being this ceremony today. I wonder how it changed? As for Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses, it was (and is) a specific repudiation based on theology and the circumstances of church. I wonder if that's the case for Jews. Mark?
Tue Sep 27, 2005, 09:04am
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