A1 initiates contact - Page 2

Camron Rust · #16 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 15, 2005, 11:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA

At some point, based on the positioning of A1 and B1 and the paths they have chosen, LGP could be established (according to rule book definition) will come into play unless B1 runs over A1 from behind. If the foul is on A1, LGP was established momentarily before the contact, if the foul was on B1, then LGP was lost or never obtained prior to contact.

Do those blanket criteria hold even if the dribbler pushes off with an arm? [/B]

I am not quite sure what you are getting at, but I will attempt to answer.

In my mind (or what is left in it) the guarding position is important for determining block/charge contact. I think we can agree that a push from the arm of A1 while dribbling will be a foul on A1. B1 does not have to have LGP to receive a push from A1 - they could be moving in parallel paths.
[/B][/QUOTE]

B1 can draw a charge without ever having LGP. LGP only gives B1 the priviledge of jumping or moving in certain directions at the time of contact. If B1 falls for a pump fake from outside is standing in the middle of the lane waiting for a rebound while A1 runs down the lane and knocks him over, I've got a charge. B1 never had LGP on A1 but is stationary and was to the spot first.

Ref in PA · #17 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 15, 2005, 11:47am

Jurassic,

Now I understand. You make good points I left out and did not phrase well. Thanks.

Chris the Sports Fan,

I also stand by my orginal call (with some insight from Jurasic). If you think A1 is initiating enough contact that a foul should be called, call it on A1.

Ref in PA · #18 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 15, 2005, 11:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust

B1 can draw a charge without ever having LGP. LGP only gives B1 the priviledge of jumping or moving in certain directions at the time of contact. If B1 falls for a pump fake from outside is standing in the middle of the lane waiting for a rebound while A1 runs down the lane and knocks him over, I've got a charge. B1 never had LGP on A1 but is stationary and was to the spot first.

Good point also.

assignmentmaker · #19 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 15, 2005, 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
In both of the situations I described, B1 has not established LGP. I'm looking to see if you would:
A- call the foul on B1 and reward A1 even though he initiated contact.
B- call the foul on A1 since hee initiated contact.
C- no-call the foul and how would you explain you pass.

Just for the record, I still stand by my original post. Use screening principles as outlined in the case book play that I cited above to make the call.

If you look in the Women's NCAA rules, which, for these purposes are the same as Fed, you can find an illustration of exactly this issue, an illegal screen by the dribbler. I've been looking for years and finally bagged me one last year.