American flag patch

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
No lawsuits would be forthcoming because there is no merit.

You might want to check your state laws. The IHSA does not want to have an observers program because there are some obvious legal issues that might violate the independent contractor laws.

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
Like you said we are independent contractors. We do not have to accept any games. Likewise, Associations, Conferences or any other group responsible for assigning games are not required to assign us any games. If you don't like the requirements don't accept the assignment. Nobody is a "slave to the organization". You either choose to abide by their rules and constituition or you don't participate. Therefore, a lawsuit is frivolous (sp?)

It sounds that way when you are telling us that an association will not give you games if you do not adhere to what is a symbol or political statement. What if someone is not an American citizen? Can they wear the flag of their country? I know officials that are not Nationalized American Citizens and being an American Citizen is not an absolute requirement (at least in this state).

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
Please tell me laws would be violated. There are many employers who require the flag to be worn as part of the uniform. If you don't like it, don't work for them. It is as simple as that.

Independent contractor laws are usually state laws. Just like classifications for non-for profit status as it relates to Official's Associations. Maybe in your state everything it is OK to do that, the IHSA goes out of their way not to require more of the officials to not breach state laws or classifications. It is a lot different than working for the local police department which pays its employees benefits and salary. If I work a contractor job for a city, other than following the law not sure the city can make me wear a flag.

Originally posted by BBall_Junkie
Now, in terms of where I officiate, it is our option. However, since I choose to call this country home, I have no problem sewing the patch on my sleeve.

Chuck said the same thing I did, only better.

You are right we have options. The reality is no one here requires such a silly thing. I would bet no one on this discussion board has lost games because they did not have a flag patch.

My football crew wears a flag because that was a crew decisions soon after the September 11 tragedy. September 11 happen during the football season and emotions were high. I do not have one basketball shirt with a flag on it. No one really wears them and it is very hard to find 3 guys that all have patched shirts. I do not even bother. I have not had one assignor even care about this issue. As I said, our assignors or ADs that hire officials want games filled, not political agreement amongst the officials.

Peace

[truerookie]

Being a "REDBLOODED" fighting American. I have served (still serving) "our" country for 15 years (Army) active duty. I wear the American flag on both my utility uniform (Mandatory)directive from our Chain of Command and official shirt (optional)in my heart this is what being an American is all about. "Living the American dream". I am appalled that this is even an issue.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by truerookie
Being a "REDBLOODED" fighting American. I have served (still serving) "our" country for 15 years (Army) active duty. I wear the American flag on both my utility uniform (Mandatory)directive from our Chain of Command and official shirt (optional)in my heart this is what being an American is all about. "Living the American dream". I am appalled that this is even an issue.

My father is buried in a Veteran's Cemetery in Memphis, Tenn. He served in Korea. I thank you for your service. I also feel that political statements should not be a requirement in sports. I just know that having been in an a JROTC program in high school and knowing all the procedures in honoring the flag, most Americans are clueless to those procedures (standing at attention when the flag passes, knowing if the flag should be dipped or not). Even the flags we were given through an association were totally wrong based on what sleeve we can put them on. No one is outraged. No one basically cares just as long as they have the flag; they do not care if they properly "honor" the flag.

All I am saying is we get so caught up in these issues that have nothing to do with what we are doing based on if someone wears a flag or not. The great thing about this country is we can disagree on these issues. I just feel that wearing a flag should not be an issue. If someone wants it to be, the buy everyone flags and at least make sure they are wearing it properly. All our state says to our officials is that a flag can be worn on our right shoulder but they do not educate anyone on whether the flag is facing the proper way. Not that I blame them for not knowing the difference. I know I did not think about it until the issue was raised. I just feel symbols are just that symbols. A flag can change, what is in my heart or my values are not influenced only by symbols.


Peace

[26 Year Gap]

We wear ours on the back. OC would sew them on. Our board voted to have them worn. I may have a shirt or two w/o one. If I wear one of those by mistake, it may cost me rating points. But, NOT wearing the flag can ALSO be a political statement. Our assn. voted. It has not been appealed. That is the way it is here.

[tomegun]

Rut, there has got to be a deeper issue that causes all this anger and disagreement. I think you are an intelligent person by the content of your posts. However, you always come off as someone who must disagree when it isn't even needed. You have this fit all response that you use to back you up that has to do with where someone lives and the fact that we all live in different places. For crying out loud! We know we don't all live in the same place and there are differences! Can you give that a rest? You have a lot to offer without the constant "jerk" in you coming out. What is really wrong?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I also feel that political statements should not be a requirement in sports.

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not trying to pick a fight or anything like that. But what political statement do you think is being made by wearing the flag?

Are you assuming that it indicates support for a particular party? Or for the war in Iraq? Or for disbanding the U.N.?

Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just don't see why wearing the flag has to be some political statement. Maybe it's a personal statement about love for one's homeland, regardless of who holds the White House.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I guess it really comes from where you live. I do not belong to groups or organizations that assign any games. The IHSA is not an official's association. The IHSA is an association of schools and they license officials in order to work those games. The only things they require are patches to signify that we are licensed with the IHSA. Flag patches are symbols that have nothing to do with officiating. Of course someone could "require" you wear such a patch. The problem is we are independent contractors (at least in our state) and that might open the assignors up for violating independent contractor laws. I have said before it amazes me how many are "slaves to their organizations," and here our organizations are there to train and recruit officials only. We are not trying to make people do anything that might have a political slant to it. Whether we like it or not, wearing an American Flag has political statements surrounding it. I am not sure many want to "go there." Obviously they could make such a requirement, but you might have to deal with a lawsuit to defend that position. Not sure many assignors or associations want to open themselves up for that kind of issue. After all they want to fill games, not alienate people that might work for them.

Peace

So, can they make you wear a patch or not? In one post you say they can't (regarding a flag) and in another they say the do (regarding a IHSA patch). The only difference is what's on the patch. Whoever is in charge of licensing or assiging or certifying can make whatever they want a requirement...if you don't follow the requirement, you don't work. Its not a matter of being pertinent to officiating.

A patch is no different than the rest of the uniform. Why stripes? Why not a plaid? Why black shoes? None of those have any bearing on the quality of job that can or is done.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

So, can they make you wear a patch or not? In one post you say they can't (regarding a flag) and in another they say the do (regarding a IHSA patch). The only difference is what's on the patch. Whoever is in charge of licensing or assiging or certifying can make whatever they want a requirement...if you don't follow the requirement, you don't work. Its not a matter of being pertinent to officiating.

Wearing a patch that shows you have a license is not the same as wearing a symbol that has nothing to do with that license. I have a license plate on my car, it is not required that I put a symbol on it in order to comply with the law.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
A patch is no different than the rest of the uniform. Why stripes? Why not a plaid? Why black shoes? None of those have any bearing on the quality of job that can or is done.

Well a flag patch must be differnet if they tell you right off the bat that a flag patch is optional. Not only do they tell you it is optional, they go out of their way to suggest it is optional. It must not be the same thing.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not trying to pick a fight or anything like that. But what political statement do you think is being made by wearing the flag?

Are you assuming that it indicates support for a particular party? Or for the war in Iraq? Or for disbanding the U.N.?

Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just don't see why wearing the flag has to be some political statement. Maybe it's a personal statement about love for one's homeland, regardless of who holds the White House.

Why does it need to be worn? We all know what country we are from right? Why do you need another reminder to say the obvious? I am a Christian. Would it be right to wear a Cross on my jersey too? All symbols mean something to someone. If it didn't matter to someone just ask Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Then come back to me on what statements mean.

Peace

[xxssmen]

WOW! I didnÂ’t post this topic to be a heated argument, I have seen some High School officials with a patch on there left shoulder of there uniform during a rec. game and was told by that official that this year it was required.
Now some of you say its not and its optional I just hate to be on a court with a partner who has one and some of us who might not have one at all, I always feel that as a team we should look alike as much as we can on the court (professionalism) is what IÂ’m trying to say here.
I guess I will have to have 2 uniforms at all time with one with the flag and the other one plain, just hope that itÂ’s all on the same side.

[26 Year Gap]

In cutting through all the rhetoric, just ask what your association does. If you officiate in other jurisdictions, ask what their policy is. It is no big deal, although it seems to be with some.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by 26 Year Gap
In cutting through all the rhetoric, just ask what your association does. If you officiate in other jurisdictions, ask what their policy is. It is no big deal, although it seems to be with some.

Yup!

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Wearing a patch that shows you have a license is not the same as wearing a symbol that has nothing to do with that license. I have a license plate on my car, it is not required that I put a symbol on it in order to comply with the law.
Peace [/B]

Let's split some hairs here; wearing a patch does not necessarily mean you are licensed, that's why we still have to carry our card and it's the burden of the school to verify our certification. Last year I purchased an additional 5 patches. None of them came with a Lojack on them so nobody really knows what I did with them or where they are right now.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
Let's split some hairs here; wearing a patch does not necessarily mean you are licensed, that's why we still have to carry our card and it's the burden of the school to verify our certification. Last year I purchased an additional 5 patches. None of them came with a Lojack on them so nobody really knows what I did with them or where they are right now.

Well any officials, coach or administrator sees you without a state patch (in my state) can write you up (using a Special Report) for not wearing one. Then you will have to answer to the state and might get put on probation as a result and possibly your license suspended. There is no such procedure for a flag being on your jersey. You can even get in trouble if it is not worn properly. The American flag can be worn on the jersey, backwards, upside down and that is not a viable reason to get written up for. So there is a huge difference.

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Well any officials, coach or administrator sees you without a state patch (in my state) can write you up (using a Special Report) for not wearing one. Then you will have to answer to the state and might get put on probation as a result and possibly your license suspended. There is no such procedure for a flag being on your jersey. You can even get in trouble if it is not worn properly. The American flag can be worn on the jersey, backwards, upside down and that is not a viable reason to get written up for. So there is a huge difference.

Peace

Here to. I'm making the point that just because someone has a patch on their shirt does not mean that there license is current.