Using the "n" word - Page 2

DownTownTonyBrown · #16 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 12, 2005, 11:11pm

Obviously, Weekendref didn't feel it was taunting at the time.

I don't like the word and would never use it but I can see how it could be used in a non-taunting, joking way. Apparently the opponent didn't feel taunted either because, given that Weekendref didn't do anything, there was no retaliation. And there was no further confrontation.

Weekendref, I would say that you probably did just right. And that you probably did just right by thinking the situation over when all was said and done. You will be more prepared next time - perhaps a little more attentive.

But I can also side with MTD. It could also have been said in a very inappropriate manner (condemning, ridiculing, taunting) and in that context, ejection is probably very appropriate.

SMEngmann · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 01:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
In my opinion this has to be a technical in a high school game, because the way I read it, this is an act of taunting. You never know how this could potentially escalate between the 2 players, particularly if the game becomes a blowout. I do not work college, so I'd have to leave that to you guys who do, but in my area we have a zero tolerance mandate for unsportsmanlike conduct, so I would very likely T here to maintain control of the game.

I think what many are saying is that if it's between 2 teammates, see if you can warn but if it's to their opponent, that might require penalty. It still amazes me how many of these kids know each other from other sports or AAU or whatever. Sometimes my initial reaction is to jump in but the 2 players are laughing. Why then do I need to get involved other than to make sure fans and other teammates don't get involved and carry it over the line. I usually would tell them that others might mistake what they are saying so let's cut it out.

I hear what you are saying and I agree with you, based on the way I read the statement and my interpretation (of course I wasn't there) it seemed to me like an act of taunting, which would get a T from me. It would be flagrant only if it started a fight between the two players (don't really want to get into a legal "fighting words" debate here....). Even if it were apparant that the kids were buddies, I'd probably err on the side of the T just to prevent the same type of trash talk from happening at the other end of the floor. What happens when the player who was taunted dunks over the other player the next time down the floor and makes a similar quip? Now as an official you've started to lose control of the game, and if you T the second guy, you've essentially let the instigator off the hook. Too many things can happen, even between friends in a competitive atmosphere, penalize to prevent a future incident.

alfreedog · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 07:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Obviously, Weekendref didn't feel it was taunting at the time.

I don't like the word and would never use it but I can see how it could be used in a non-taunting, joking way. Apparently the opponent didn't feel taunted either because, given that Weekendref didn't do anything, there was no retaliation. And there was no further confrontation.
Example of that would be two players same team waling to the huddle one says to the other one "Nigga that was a good shot" you over heard it. Now as a AA guy myself and coming into b-ball officiating to impact young people I would step in and just ask that they not use that type of language on the court. That way I am not trying to control their home life but just giving them a little constructive criticism.
Weekendref, I would say that you probably did just right. And that you probably did just right by thinking the situation over when all was said and done. You will be more prepared next time - perhaps a little more attentive.

But I can also side with MTD. It could also have been said in a very inappropriate manner (condemning, ridiculing, taunting) and in that context, ejection is probably very appropriate.
I too have to agree with MTD on this one also-it is always important to remember that we are there not to be replacement parents but to be a good "GRANDPARENT"

Wearin' Stripes · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 10:37am

Horizon League / Great Lakes Valley Conference Men's Officiating Coordinator John Adams: Flagrant T, associated ejection, and call him before you are out of the parking lot.

[Edited by Wearin' Stripes on Sep 13th, 2005 at 11:41 AM]

Texas Aggie · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 01:06pm

You guys that aren't suggesting an immediate ejection are kidding, right?

I don't like political correctness anymore than the next guy, and I'm not going to tell anyone other than the coach what was said (unless I have to file a report), but this is a no brainer ejection (flagrant T, or whatever is necessary in Fed).

zebraman · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 01:41pm

Just my two cents: I would call an unsportsmanlike technical foul but not eject. My logic is that to let it go could easily lead to a fight and I would want to maintain control of the game (this is a high school game after all and sportsmanship is a POE right?). I would do the same regardless of the color of the players involved.

Z

[Edited by zebraman on Sep 13th, 2005 at 02:44 PM]

Jimgolf · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 01:56pm

Where do you people live?

This is a very common term of address in the streets, and with the popularity of rap has spread to middle class neighborhoods as well. Instead of calling each other fool or dawg, they say the n-word.

Teammates talking to each other is not unsportsmanlike behavior. Don't take things out of context. Use your judgment and act appropriately. That's what makes it a judgment call.

Jurassic Referee · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Where do you people live?

This is a very common term of address in the streets, and with the popularity of rap has spread to middle class neighborhoods as well. Instead of calling each other fool or dawg, they say the n-word.

Teammates talking to each other is not unsportsmanlike behavior. Don't take things out of context. Use your judgment and act appropriately. That's what makes it a judgment call.

Jim, if you go back to the very first post of this thread, you will find that the players using the N-word to each other weren't teammates. They were opponents.

Is your answer still the same and is it a blanket answer to cover all circumstances?

ChuckElias · #24 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Teammates talking to each other is not unsportsmanlike behavior.

So a player who says "Great f*****g block!" to his teammate shouldn't be T'd up?

It's a pretty common form of expression; and with the popularity of crap, I mean, rap "music" etc., etc. . .

cmckenna · #25 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 02:15pm

Chuck,

I was going to make the same point. What would everyone have done had it been "You gotta move your feet assh*)3"

PGCougar · #26 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 02:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by cmckenna
Chuck,

What would everyone have done had it been "You gotta move your feet assh*)3"

And that's the coach yelling it...

Junker · #27 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 03:56pm

I think I'd rather hear "gotta move your feet as@hole" than "good defense".

tomegun · #28 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 13, 2005, 06:16pm

I don't understand how some are simply dimissing this or saying it could have just been taunting! This word has a history. Great pain has been caused as a result of this word.

I would understand it more if everyone that hasn't experienced the pain this word has caused issued a T across the board but that isn't the case.

This will get a T from me.

brianp134 · #29 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2005, 07:05am

Tom, I have been waiting for you to provide input on this. I would definitely agree that a "T" is required. Anything less than a "T" would be ridiculous.

JRutledge · #30 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2005, 10:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I don't understand how some are simply dimissing this or saying it could have just been taunting! This word has a history. Great pain has been caused as a result of this word.

I would understand it more if everyone that hasn't experienced the pain this word has caused issued a T across the board but that isn't the case.

This will get a T from me.

I agree that the word has history, but it has history with people that are white. There are also other words that I would be very offended by if someone white said them as well. It does not carry the same feelings when someone of my own race uses. I might not like the word, but it does not have the same distiction. This just goes to show that all people of color do not agree.

Peace