Move Up?

[JRutledge]

It is very well documented that I do not see eye to eye with Z often, but he is right on with this one.

I have another question to the JV or lower level officials out there. You actually prefer getting off of work much earlier and having to get to a game a few hours earlier than the varsity officials have to be there? You like having to work every Saturday morning game? You like working odd days of the week?

Maybe some of these things might be relative to my area. Lower level officials in most cases have to be at the game site 45 to 30 minutes before game time, which those games start at 6:00 or sometimes 5:45. Then do that while fighting traffic during the worst time of the day to get to a game site. A lower level official might have to leave work early to get to a game where a varsity official can leave after work. A varsity official will most likely not have to get to a site 45 minutes before game time and the game starts at 7:30 (sometimes 7:00 but not as often). Yes a varsity official might get home later or to the bar later than a lower level official (what ever floats your boat).

Forget the challenge of the game, working a varsity game or schedule from what I see gives you more time to not interfere with your job and makes it easier to get to games.

Peace

[Love this Game]

Originally posted by zebraman

In general, JV games are not as competitive as varsity games. The better players play on the varsity and any school I've ever known about puts more emphasis on winning and being competitive at the varsity level.

Ships are safe in harbors, but that aren't what ships are made for. Challenge yourself.... work up to varsity and enjoy the added intensity and adrenaline of varsity games. If you don't like it, drop back down to JV. 99% who make it to the varsity level never want to go back, even the guys who said that they just wanted to do afternoon games when they first started. Go for it.

Z

Hey Jeff this is Chris I do agree with you but, if a person is not ready do not move up. Move up wen you are ready to move up and not until. If the original writer is in Ohio he will destroy himself if he comes up and is really not ready.

I know officials 15-20 years that nly want to do the JV Games.

Now like myself i enjoy the challenge, but not every one is ready for that!!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Love this Game


Hey Jeff this is Chris I do agree with you but, if a person is not ready do not move up. Move up wen you are ready to move up and not until. If the original writer is in Ohio he will destroy himself if he comes up and is really not ready.

I know officials 15-20 years that nly want to do the JV Games.

Now like myself i enjoy the challenge, but not every one is ready for that!!

I am not saying you should work a level you are not seriously ready for. Apart of being ready for the varsity (or college) is being comfortable with you as an official.

I am not saying everyone is ready. I am saying that if I had a choice, I would work the varsity game every time. I also hear the "I will get home" argument a lot too. I personally do not see why that is such a big deal. I am not trying to watch the next episode of Law and Order. Or if I wanted to, that is what the VCR is for.

Peace

[refTN]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I am not saying you should work a level you are not seriously ready for. Apart of being ready for the varsity (or college) is being comfortable with you as an official.

I am not saying everyone is ready. I am saying that if I had a choice, I would work the varsity game every time. I also hear the "I will get home" argument a lot too. I personally do not see why that is such a big deal. I am not trying to watch the next episode of Law and Order. Or if I wanted to, that is what the VCR is for.

Peace

Don't forget about TiVo or Ultimate TV

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge
It is very well documented that I do not see eye to eye with Z often, but he is right on with this one.

I have another question to the JV or lower level officials out there. You actually prefer getting off of work much earlier and having to get to a game a few hours earlier than the varsity officials have to be there? You like having to work every Saturday morning game? You like working odd days of the week?

What does Saturday or odd days have to do with this discussion? I don't know of any reason that JV games can't be played on the same day as the Varsity game. They may or may not depending on the area but it is only by someone's choice. In fact, JV games here precedes the Varsity game by an 1.5 to 1.75 hours on the same dates. The freshman games are often held at the same time as the JV game.

Originally posted by JRutledge

Maybe some of these things might be relative to my area. Lower level officials in most cases have to be at the game site 45 to 30 minutes before game time, which those games start at 6:00 or sometimes 5:45. Then do that while fighting traffic during the worst time of the day to get to a game site. A lower level official might have to leave work early to get to a game where a varsity official can leave after work. A varsity official will most likely not have to get to a site 45 minutes before game time and the game starts at 7:30 (sometimes 7:00 but not as often). Yes a varsity official might get home later or to the bar later than a lower level official (what ever floats your boat).

You make a lot of assumptions.

A lot of people don't work 8-5. I've found that particularly true with officials in general more than others I know. Many may not be leaving work early at all. In fact, I know some that have really early jobs and like to be asleep by the time I'm finishing my game. I know another that would be assigned varisty games but requests JV so he can go home to be with his kids before they're all asleep.

If I target getting to a game by 5pm, traffic is not too bad yet...it gets worse as I'm arriving.

I would expect the varisty officials to arrive at the game earlier than the JV official before theirs.

Originally posted by JRutledge

Forget the challenge of the game, working a varsity game or schedule from what I see gives you more time to not interfere with your job and makes it easier to get to games.

Peace

Again, that depends on your job and your family. It depends on the traffic patterns in your area.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Again, that depends on your job and your family. It depends on the traffic patterns in your area.

Jeff -- I agree with you most of the time, but I have to respectfully disagree with you, and agree with Camron, in this one situation. With my job, and the traffic patterns here in Portland, varsity is the most disruptive game for me, as a rule. I do it anyway, and it's a blast, but it isn't the easiest on my schedule.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Camron Rust


What does Saturday or odd days have to do with this discussion? I don't know of any reason that JV games can't be played on the same day as the Varsity game. They may or may not depending on the area but it is only by someone's choice. In fact, JV games here precedes the Varsity game by an 1.5 to 1.75 hours on the same dates. The freshman games are often held at the same time as the JV game.

Well depending on where you live, JV games are not played on the same days as a varsity game. It really boils down to where you live. It also has to deal with the discussion if you read the original post.

Originally posted by JRutledge


You make a lot of assumptions.

A lot of people don't work 8-5. I've found that particularly true with officials in general more than others I know. Many may not be leaving work early at all. In fact, I know some that have really early jobs and like to be asleep by the time I'm finishing my game. I know another that would be assigned varisty games but requests JV so he can go home to be with his kids before they're all asleep.

You also make a lot of assumptions, not everyone has kids that they need to tuck in either. Many officials I know their kids are much older or their kids are in college. Or there are many officials like myself that have no kids at all. Most people I know also have a job and that job requires that they work sometime during the day. Most jobs people are working during mid-day. One the other hand there are a lot of people do not have a set schedule or work in sales or run a business and they can leave just about anytime they get ready. Not sure what your issue is Camron. I also work baseball and one of the main reasons we have a shortage of umpires in my area is because people cannot get off of work to get to those games. Baseball games start at 4:00 and 4:30 in my area and it is not the desire to work that makes people quit or never get started. It is their job.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
If I target getting to a game by 5pm, traffic is not too bad yet...it gets worse as I'm arriving.

I would expect the varisty officials to arrive at the game earlier than the JV official before theirs.

Camron, there is a reason I said something like, "Maybe some of these things might be relative to my area." I realize that everyone does not live in a large metropolitan area. When I started officiating I lived in a very rural area. When I lived in that rural area I still had an hour or more drive to many games. It was not always easy to get away from what I had to do at that time and get to games.

Originally posted by JRutledge

Again, that depends on your job and your family. It depends on the traffic patterns in your area.

Of course it does. Who said family, job or traffic did not matter? Of course all that matters. I am just saying that most people can get to an evening game than an early afternoon game.

Peace

[Hartsy]

Thanks for all the discussion.

I have no problem with getting a Class 1 certification, just didn't know how hard I should try to reschedule things if my schedule conflicts with the exam times again.

I likely wont be assigned any varsity games for a few years anyhow. By then I should be well ready to work them if I want to do so.

One of my concerns is that if I continue to miss taking the Class 1 exam that I be perceived as someone not wanting to get better. Maybe it isn't a problem if I get to know everyone well enough, and show interest and professionalism, as I have been.

Sounds like the enjoyment of working Varsity games outweighs anything else for most officials. With my job and rural area, it is no problem for me to make early games. It is actually very convenient, considering my games are east or south of the office, and I live well west.
Unless I wanted to do a lot more driving, I would have some time to kill before a Varsity game. But hey, I could see the first half of the JV game.

It's not so much that enjoy getting home earlier, but that I enjoy ending my work day, then right into officiating, then sitting back, watching a good Varsity matchup. It seems to work well for me. From what I'm hearing, I'm just not normal, or just don't know how much better working Varsity games can be.

[JRutledge]

Officiating is very personal. I work 3 sports and I can tell you when I talk to many officials how much they say "My wife would never let me do that." But most of the officials that work 3 sports also have kids too. So it really is based on what you feel is important and what you want to do. Nobody here can tell you what to do or how much to work or when to work. If you are perfectly happy with working lower level games that is your complete right. I just know I would not be happy doing that at all and most officials I know would not be happy. We also do not have to live your life.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Hartsy
The local association says it would be good to get the Class I, even if I didn't get assigned, or choose to work, any varsity games for a while. I figure I need to follow that advice.

The association's advice sounds good to me. Passing the test is pretty much like chicken soup: it might not help you, but it can't hurt.

Take the test. Pass the test. Then decide if you want to work the games. Good luck!

[Love this Game]

Originally posted by Hartsy
Thanks for all the discussion.

I have no problem with getting a Class 1 certification, just didn't know how hard I should try to reschedule things if my schedule conflicts with the exam times again.

I likely wont be assigned any varsity games for a few years anyhow. By then I should be well ready to work them if I want to do so.

One of my concerns is that if I continue to miss taking the Class 1 exam that I be perceived as someone not wanting to get better. Maybe it isn't a problem if I get to know everyone well enough, and show interest and professionalism, as I have been.

Sounds like the enjoyment of working Varsity games outweighs anything else for most officials. With my job and rural area, it is no problem for me to make early games. It is actually very convenient, considering my games are east or south of the office, and I live well west.
Unless I wanted to do a lot more driving, I would have some time to kill before a Varsity game. But hey, I could see the first half of the JV game.

It's not so much that enjoy getting home earlier, but that I enjoy ending my work day, then right into officiating, then sitting back, watching a good Varsity matchup. It seems to work well for me. From what I'm hearing, I'm just not normal, or just don't know how much better working Varsity games can be.

Hartsy;

I live in Columbus, Ohio and I have been around a while. Started when varsity was still a two man game, so if you need any help or in advice in the Great State of Ohio let me know.

It is good join an assosiciation in your area. And after reading some of the post I will agre with the last one. Get your class 1, but you dont have to accept any varsity assignments until you are ready to do that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Well depending on where you live, JV games are not played on the same days as a varsity game. It really boils down to where you live. It also has to deal with the discussion if you read the original post.

That was precisely my point. You were the one perplexed about how a JV/early game might be preferred. Your points had absolutely nothing to do with the issue. The day of the week makes no difference for this issue...why would a Wednesday be different than Friday or Thursday? The time of day is a lot more relavant to the discussion than the day of the week.

Originally posted by JRutledge

You also make a lot of assumptions, not everyone has kids that they need to tuck in either. Many officials I know their kids are much older or their kids are in college. Or there are many officials like myself that have no kids at all. Most people I know also have a job and that job requires that they work sometime during the day. Most jobs people are working during mid-day. One the other hand there are a lot of people do not have a set schedule or work in sales or run a business and they can leave just about anytime they get ready. Not sure what your issue is Camron. I also work baseball and one of the main reasons we have a shortage of umpires in my area is because people cannot get off of work to get to those games. Baseball games start at 4:00 and 4:30 in my area and it is not the desire to work that makes people quit or never get started. It is their job.

You were the one questioning why any official would prefer early/JV games. I only provided you several reasons. I made no claims that all or even most officials would be in the same situations. You were the one who unconditionally said: "Forget the challenge of the game, working a varsity game or schedule from what I see gives you more time to not interfere with your job and makes it easier to get to games." I was merely pointing out that your vision was limited.

Originally posted by JRutledge

Of course it does. Who said family, job or traffic did not matter? Of course all that matters. I am just saying that most people can get to an evening game than an early afternoon game.

Peace

I agree that, for many people, it is easier to get to later games. You were the one that seemed so puzzled by anyone would want to work the earlier games.

Personally, it is easier for me to get to the later games and am glad that nearly all of may games I work are 7:15 or later. It would make it very hard for me to get to a 5:30/5:45 game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Hartsy
Thanks for all the discussion.

I have no problem with getting a Class 1 certification, just didn't know how hard I should try to reschedule things if my schedule conflicts with the exam times again.

I likely wont be assigned any varsity games for a few years anyhow. By then I should be well ready to work them if I want to do so.

One of my concerns is that if I continue to miss taking the Class 1 exam that I be perceived as someone not wanting to get better. Maybe it isn't a problem if I get to know everyone well enough, and show interest and professionalism, as I have been.

Sounds like the enjoyment of working Varsity games outweighs anything else for most officials. With my job and rural area, it is no problem for me to make early games. It is actually very convenient, considering my games are east or south of the office, and I live well west.
Unless I wanted to do a lot more driving, I would have some time to kill before a Varsity game. But hey, I could see the first half of the JV game.

It's not so much that enjoy getting home earlier, but that I enjoy ending my work day, then right into officiating, then sitting back, watching a good Varsity matchup. It seems to work well for me. From what I'm hearing, I'm just not normal, or just don't know how much better working Varsity games can be.

Hartsy, do what makes you happy and what works for you. Don't let cocky jerks tell you you can't be a good official if you don't aspire to move up. It's not about them or pleasing anyone but yourself and doing a respectable job for the job you take. I konw some guys that work mostly JV games by choice who are better officials than many that work varsity schedules. There will alway be those who look down on them blind to the fact that the level of game they're working is not always an indicator or who good of an official they are.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

That was precisely my point. You were the one perplexed about how a JV/early game might be preferred. Your points had absolutely nothing to do with the issue. The day of the week makes no difference for this issue...why would a Wednesday be different than Friday or Thursday? The time of day is a lot more relavant to the discussion than the day of the week.

Camron, you need to read this quote from Hasty's thread.

"It's not that I don't think I can do it, just that I'm not sure I want to. Maybe that will change in a few years, but right now, I enjoy the JV and Freshman games, and can get home early if I choose, or I can hang around for the varsity matchup."

I mentioned the time based on what he said. This is a common comment at least where I live so I commented accordingly. My comments were not for your benefit. Hasty did not seem to have a problem with what I said, why are you so worried about it?

Originally posted by Camron Rust

You were the one questioning why any official would prefer early/JV games. I only provided you several reasons. I made no claims that all or even most officials would be in the same situations. You were the one who unconditionally said: "Forget the challenge of the game, working a varsity game or schedule from what I see gives you more time to not interfere with your job and makes it easier to get to games." I was merely pointing out that your vision was limited.

Camron, this is called a discussion board for a reason. It is to have discussions. If you have not noticed discussions here take on many forms. I was not talking to you or asking the question so you would understand better. If this discussion is too much for you to handle or you do not agree with it that is certainly your right to feel that way. I was just asking a specific question and trying to encourage Hasty to look beyond what might be his built in barriers. If he thinks my advice, that is for him to decide.

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I agree that, for many people, it is easier to get to later games. You were the one that seemed so puzzled by anyone would want to work the earlier games.

Once again Camron, I was not asking you the question. You were not the person I would expect to answer the question because you are not in Hasty's or anyone else's situation like that. Hasty asked a question, I asked one in return. I was not puzzled, just wanted to know what his reasoning and other people's reasoning for not really wanting to work varsity. If someone does not want to go for promotion (based on a system that Ohio and Illinois have) then I wanted to know why they would allow that to hold them back because they do not want to do varsity. I am not saying everyone has to want to do varsity, just wanted to know why they might be adamant about not working at the varsity level. If you have not noticed I sit on many Association Boards and I speak at many different clinics that either our associations runs or is run by an area group. It is very rare that most officials do not want to move up to some degree (varsity and/or college). I did a presentation called "Moving Up" last November and this session was packed. There were hardly any seats available in the band room where I held the presentation. This is a very common discussion I get asked about so I am asked a question to get more information when this topic comes up in board meetings or with newer officials I come in contact with. I was not asking this question to tick you off or to upset you in any way. I was asking the question because this was pointed out by Hasty himself. I am sorry that I wasted your time or upset you. Maybe next time I will confer with you before I ask questions that are not up to your high standards.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Once again, Jeff, you make absolute statements that are utter BS and once you're called on them, you weasle out of them by saying you weren't talking to me. You tell me this is a discussion board but I can't be in the discussion! Me handling the discussion is most certainly not an issue. I suggest you evaluate your ability to communicate on point and with clarity and open your horizons to realize that the world is bigger than you back yard.

Just cause you're on many boards doesn't mean squat. I seem to recall you discrediting some NFHS board members saying that their authority is not well regarded (not a point that I agree with). Just because some people are able to BS their way into positions of visibility doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

BTW, I'm the one that replied because everyone else is ignoring your mis-information.

Perhaps you are a great official and a good speaker, it just doesn't come across that way in print. Perhaps the inconsistencies and errors in your written statements are not what you mean but all you're able to write.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jul 29th, 2005 at 08:20 PM]