Make both calls and explain the difference!

[eventnyc]

I'm not going to chime in on this just yet. I'd like your analysis of both situations and why you ruled as you did.

Play situation number 1:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets to B-1. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip.

RULING -

Play situation number 2:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets out of bounds without being touched again. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip. What if the contact was more severe?

RULING -

I am using the thread as a training tool. Thanks for your input!

[capwsu]

Well first off I'd say I would need to see both plays to really say what I'd call. But going by advantage/disadvantage, I would be more willing to pass on calling a foul in the second situation, since A is getting the ball anyways. I'd be more willing to call a foul in sit A if I feel the contact warranted a foul, since team A lost the ball. Again, it would depend on how much contact, but I will pass on a foul if it's not bonus and the same team gets the ball back. Just my humble opinion, hope this helps and doesn't start a big argument.

[eventnyc]

I'm looking for the different points of view, however, I don't want to catagorize them as arguments. Thank you!

[Snake~eyes]

Well did the team A coach want a foul? If so then it was a foul.

[w_sohl]

As was said, I would need to see the severity of the contact to truly rule on the play. The second sitch doesn't really sound like I would be calling a foul. Minor contact that didn't affect the path of the dribbler and they are getting the ball back. If the contact affects the path of the dribbler I am more likly to call the foul. I guess I would look at the first situation the same way.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by eventnyc
I'm not going to chime in on this just yet. I'd like your analysis of both situations and why you ruled as you did.

Play situation number 1:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets to B-1. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip.

RULING - b-2 touches any other part of the body without touching the hand which is part of the ball FOUL! could have avoided contact.

Play situation number 2:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets out of bounds without being touched again. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip. What if the contact was more severe?

RULING - Same as above Foul!

I am using the thread as a training tool. Thanks for your input!

[eventnyc]

Minor contact!

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by eventnyc
Minor contact!

Your idea of minor contact and my idea of minor contact probably differs...

In both situations if the contact affected the path of the dribbler I would call the foul. If the dribblers path is unaffected I probably would not.

[Edited by w_sohl on Jun 12th, 2005 at 02:51 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by eventnyc
I'm not going to chime in on this just yet. I'd like your analysis of both situations and why you ruled as you did.

Play situation number 1:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets to B-1. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip.

RULING -

Play situation number 2:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets out of bounds without being touched again. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip. What if the contact was more severe?

RULING -

I am using the thread as a training tool. Thanks for your input!

I don't really know what you're looking for here. There's no definitive answer to either of your plays. As w_sohl stated, your idea and my idea of what is inor contact maybe totally different.

But I will say this: the fact that B2 is outside of A1's visual field has absolutely nothing to do with whether a foul is called of not.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by eventnyc
I'm not going to chime in on this just yet. I'd like your analysis of both situations and why you ruled as you did.

Play situation number 1:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets to B-1. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip.

RULING -

Play situation number 2:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets out of bounds without being touched again. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip. What if the contact was more severe?

RULING -

I am using the thread as a training tool. Thanks for your input!

What age group and gender are we talking here? If we've got a girls game or younger players, it usually takes less contact to equal a foul. In situation A, which hand was A1 dribbling with when B2 hit his left hip? If A1 lost the ball because of the contact, then I've got a foul. I think you need a patient whistle here because if there was minor contact and then the ball still stayed with team A then maybe you pass.

In situation 2, I've probably got a throw in for team A. Save time and the unless the contact was severe or B2 has been messing with the flow of your game.

[blindzebra]

Which came first the ball getting hit or the "minor" contact?

If B2 hit the ball first, I probably have nothing unless the contact hinders A1 from going after the loose ball.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by eventnyc
I'm not going to chime in on this just yet. I'd like your analysis of both situations and why you ruled as you did.

Play situation number 1:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets to B-1. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip.

RULING -

Play situation number 2:

Player B-2 approaches A-1 who is dribbling the ball in his front court from behind. B-2 is out of the visual field of A-1 (he doesn't have eyes behind his head). B-2, having no reasonable chance to play the ball without making contact, reaches in and hits the ball which ricochets out of bounds without being touched again. Minor contact is made to A-1's left hip. What if the contact was more severe?

RULING -

1. Gotta see it to make a call.

2. See #1.

[Mark Padgett]

When my son played ball in HS, he had a T-shirt that had a picture of a guy on a gurney being loaded into an ambulance. Underneath the picture it read:

"No reconstructive surgery - no foul"

That seems to apply here.

[stmaryrams]

I am most likely to pass on sitch 2. In sitch 1 it would depend on several factors. Did the contact cause the turnover? Was it more than just incidental? And as said before, what level of skill do we have.

[Camron Rust]

Did the contact create the oportunity for B2 to make a play on the ball or did it cause A1 to lose the ball? If not, I've probably got no foul in both situations.