Block or Charge?

[Mark Dexter]

Block - the defender's left shoulder is moving into the offensive player, and the defender is clearly initiating contact.

[cford]

Block!

[TriggerMN]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Why do you say that?

Because it's true.

The fact that the defender is moving has nothing to do with this call. A defender can draw a PC foul while moving. But pair the movement with the fact that the defender never established legal guarding position, except perhaps after the offensive player had already left the floor in a shot attempt, and it makes this one an easy block call.

[Junker]

I'm going block on this one. As others have said, the defender initiated the contact. At the camp I attended a couple of weeks ago, Rick Hartzell was saying that he looks at where the offensive player hits the defender. If he/she gets them square in the chest, he's going PC, if they contact any other part of the body, he's going block. I thought that was a nice and easy way to look at this type of play.

[Almost Always Right]

Some of you have said that the defender "initiated contact" on this play. While the defender's right foot is sliding to the left and the left foot stays where it's at, the defender definitely does not initiate contact. Make no mistake that the offensive player initiated the contact here.
I would probably have come up with PC on this one because that is what I usually do in bang bang plays and I find it hard to reward offensive players that come in out of control. However, I certainly would not have a problem explaining a block call here nor would I have a problem supporting my partners going block here.
Thanx T-Gun
AAR

[blindzebra]

Block and it's not even close. Contact was on the shoulder and arm that got stuck out just a bit to get contact.

Just for Dan, and he flopped too.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Block and it's not even close. Contact was on the shoulder and arm that got stuck out just a bit to get contact.

Just for Dan, and he flopped too.

Hi BZ!

[SeanFitzRef]

Block. Shoulder into airborne shooter after A1 left his feet.

I like the travel on the first clip, and the no call by the C.

[Camron Rust]

BLOCK

I agree this isn't even close.

The defender had LGP. He was facing the opponent. He was in his path. He had both feet down 2-3 times between when the dribbler was at the top of the key and the point of contact. He was moving laterally with no component of movement towards the dribbler.

However, the dribbler picked up the ball and jumped. The defender was still moving laterally after that point...and such that it increase the amount of contact (not moving out of the path).

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by TriggerMN

Because it's true.

The fact that the defender is moving has nothing to do with this call. A defender can draw a PC foul while moving. But pair the movement with the fact that the defender never established legal guarding position, except perhaps after the offensive player had already left the floor in a shot attempt, and it makes this one an easy block call.

I disagree, the defender did have a LGP and this is definitely a block.

[ysong]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
BLOCK

I agree this isn't even close.

The defender had LGP. He was facing the opponent. He was in his path. He had both feet down 2-3 times between when the dribbler was at the top of the key and the point of contact. He was moving laterally with no component of movement towards the dribbler.

However, the dribbler picked up the ball and jumped. The defender was still moving laterally after that point...and such that it increase the amount of contact (not moving out of the path).

Agree.

NBA "Basic Principles" regarding "Block-charge":

"A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his shooting motion."

Therefore, even if the defender has LGP, he is not permitted to keep moving into the path of offensive player, once the habitual motion of a layup starts, in this case.

Thanks.

[mick]

Originally posted by ysong

Agree.

NBA "Basic Principles" regarding "Block-charge":

"A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his shooting motion."

Therefore, even if the defender has LGP, he is not permitted to keep moving into the path of offensive player, once the habitual motion of a layup starts, in this case.

ysong,

RE: NBA "Basic Principles"
When, exactly, does "the habitual motion of a layup start?
mick

[ysong]

Originally posted by mick

ysong,

RE: NBA "Basic Principles"
When, exactly, does "the habitual motion of a layup start?
mick

No idea.

Also, when exactly does "his shooting motion" start? But I don't want to question Stern publicly unless I have $50,000 to spare.

[ChuckElias]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by ysong
RE: NBA "Basic Principles"
When, exactly, does "the habitual motion of a layup start?
mick

Generally, when the player picks up the dribble; or when the ball is "gathered" for the shot.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Originally posted by mick

Generally, when the player picks up the dribble; or when the ball is "gathered" for the shot.

Thanks, Chuck.

A player fakes a shot, gets fouled, and then begins his "actual habitual motion" and is awarded shots.

I would have thought the "NBA Habitual Motion" may start when the player thinks about shooting "immediately after" he is fouled.
mick