Coach can call a to rule

[M&M Guy]

I'm not convinced it's a terrible rule. There have been some examples given of difficult situations, but there are ways around those situations. In FrankHTown's example on the trap, if you know Team A has the ball, and you turn around to verify it's Team A's coach calling the timeout, blow it dead and sell the timeout. If B stole it in that fraction, they are not going to complain too much if you sell the call and explain it why it was granted. Also, where's your partner in this instance? Your partner needs to be aware of the possibility of the TO and to watch for it if the trap is in your area.

Taking away the coach's ability to call TO will not necessarily fix this either. As you're focused on the trap, or 5-second count, what if the coach tells one of his players to call timeout, and that player is not in your field of vision? You or your partner still need to know it's the team in control asking for TO. And that could come from anywhere on the court. At least you know where the coach is (approximately ) so it's easier to be aware.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
True. Let's look at this from this angle...Coach is yelling to "get back on defense", or "get your hands up", "box out and get the rebound", or "cut, I said cut", is he yelling for us to do those things or his players?

Sorry but I don't see as where this has anything to do with it. No mater what he's saying, I watching what's happening, not listening to someone behind me.

Originally posted by stosh
The best way to demonstrate the difference between them "requesting" and "calling" is when for whatever reason you don't grant them the TO and they still end up with the ball (OOB off of opponent in a tie up situation, for example). Ask the coach "You still want the TO you ASKED for?" the answer is always "nope".

I'm not interested in demonstrating the difference to him. My concern is what happening in front of me when the coach is yelling.

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have found it not to be an issue. It is just one of those parts of the game that make basketball officiating interesting.

Yes, we know. You never have an issue with anything.

Originally posted by M&M Guy
In FrankHTown's example on the trap, if you know Team A has the ball, and you turn around to verify it's Team A's coach calling the timeout, blow it dead and sell the timeout.

You mean to tell me that you're going to turn your head away from a trap to look at a coach?

Originally posted by M&M Guy
Taking away the coach's ability to call TO will not necessarily fix this either. As you're focused on the trap, or 5-second count, what if the coach tells one of his players to call timeout, and that player is not in your field of vision?

There is ZERO chance that that player is going to be standing behind me, OOB.

The game got along for decades without a coach being able to request a TO. It's an unnecessary evil.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
In FrankHTown's example on the trap, if you know Team A has the ball, and you turn around to verify it's Team A's coach calling the timeout, blow it dead and sell the timeout. If B stole it in that fraction, they are not going to complain too much if you sell the call and explain it why it was granted. Also, where's your partner in this instance? Your partner needs to be aware of the possibility of the TO and to watch for it if the trap is in your area.

Taking away the coach's ability to call TO will not necessarily fix this either. As you're focused on the trap, or 5-second count, what if the coach tells one of his players to call timeout, and that player is not in your field of vision? You or your partner still need to know it's the team in control asking for TO. And that could come from anywhere on the court. At least you know where the coach is (approximately ) so it's easier to be aware.

From the 2003-04POE's--POE#4-"Officials should verify that it is indeed the head coach requesting the time-out and that the ball is in possession of the calling team. Coaches must understand that just because they've requested the time-out, doesn't guarantee that it will be granted. Officials have other responsibilities to the game that may require their immediate attention." Some of these other responsibilities are covering traps, continuing counts, etc. You can pre-game to get help from your partners, if they happen to be looking at that bench and don't have other off-ball responsibilities.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

There is ZERO chance that that player is going to be standing behind me, OOB.

The game got along for decades without a coach being able to request a TO. It's an unnecessary evil.

I haven't been doing it for decades, so I can't comment directly about that. I also totally agree about that player OOB. But that's not what I said. I mentioned a player outside your field of vision. If it is not the player directly involved in the trap, either you or your partner(s) has to look and acknowledge whoever is requesting the timeout, player or coach. As for looking away from a trap, if it's close, intense, etc., of course I'm not going to turn my head away. But if there's some way I can see both, I still have to make sure it's the coach (or player) of the team in control. But that's where pre-gaming with your partner will help. They should know you cannot leave what you're watching, so they should be aware of TO requests.

[rainmaker]

This all brings to mind a question I've long wondered about, which is, "When is a time-out officially granted?" Here's what I mean.

A1 dribbles into a trap (okay, she's not very smart). She's getting close to a 5-second violation. Coach A requests a time-out. Ref glances at Coach A, sees that it is in fact the coach, and then blows the whistle. In the time it takes for the coach to get the refs attention and for the ref to blow the whistle, B1 gets her hands on the ball. At what point in the process of request, glance, whistle is the TO considered to have been granted so that the held ball might not be called?

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by rainmaker
This all brings to mind a question I've long wondered about, which is, "When is a time-out officially granted?" Here's what I mean.

A1 dribbles into a trap (okay, she's not very smart). She's getting close to a 5-second violation. Coach A requests a time-out. Ref glances at Coach A, sees that it is in fact the coach, and then blows the whistle. In the time it takes for the coach to get the refs attention and for the ref to blow the whistle, B1 gets her hands on the ball. At what point in the process of request, glance, whistle is the TO considered to have been granted so that the held ball might not be called?

Well, here's how I usually handle it. If I'm watching the play, and I hear a request for the TO, and I know it can be legally granted, but I just don't know for sure who's calling it, I look up to see who's asking. If it is the team in control, I hit the whistle. If something happens in the meantime, I have explained that I granted the TO when it was requested, but there was a slight delay so I could verify it was indeed the right coach who made the request. Just like a delayed whistle for a foul; the whistle didn't cause the ball to become dead, the foul did. Using that same logic, I granted the TO (in my mind), and then verified it and blew the whistle. There's probably not a casebook backup to that, so use at your discretion.

[JRutledge]

Tony,

Just because you do not like the rule, does not mean the rest of us have to agree with you. This is an easily solved problem. If a coach is too dumb to figure out what that is, tough luck.

Peace

[JLMatthew]

From the sounds of it I can offer an interesting perspective. I'm 23 and have been doing this for a couple of years. This means in my experience the head coach has always been able to call a time out. I've got no problem with the rule at all.

If I've got a trouble sit. where a coach might want a TO (trap, triple team, etc.) I ref the game and don't grant it if I can't verify it's the coach. If he gets upset I very briefly explain why I didn't grant it and if he continues like a jerk I whack him. I have no problem calling the game right, talking to the coach and taking care of business if need be. I've actually found that having to pay attention to a coach TO has helped my game awareness and game management.

I think that we need to feel confident enough not to grant the TO, explain why, and then talk to the coach and diffuse the situation. Oh yeah, and whack when necessary. Peace.

[ChuckElias]

I know that there is at least one member of the NCAA Men's Rule Committee who would like to see this rule removed from the book. Don't know if it will happen, but at least someone agrees with those of us who hate the rule.

[mick]

The problem with the rule allowing a coach to request a time-out is not the fact that it's allowed, but rather the resulting actions of the coach when the request is missed.

[JLMatthew]

Originally posted by mick
The problem with the rule allowing a coach to request a time-out is not the fact that it's allowed, but rather the resulting actions of the coach when the request is missed.

I agree totally, and don't think it should be an issue. Referee's should feel comfortable in talking to the coach when appropriate and then moving on. If the coach doesn't move on, you know what to do. Don't think I'm the kind of guy who whacks on a whim, but technicals are excellent tools in the arsenal. Peace.

[agmattbballref]

Forgive my tardiness on chiming in here, but I have been away with military obligations...(this Army thing always interferes with my reffing...smile), but I have really enjoyed reading this post and the varying opinions contained. I had a situation, while doing a closely contested varsity girls game this past year. Offense has the lead and up by one point near the end of the game. I am in the trail position as the PG dribbles into a trap, which coincidently is directly across from the coach of the team in possession of the ball. As a result of my court position my back is turned to the bench, however the trap is in my primary, so I am reffing the action. I hear a TO request from behind me. I am almost certain it was the head coach, since I have heard her for most of the game...nothing despariging, but let's just say she had a good set of lungs, and a distinctive voice. However, because I could not see her I did not grant the TO, and almost immediately after the requesst was granted her PG turns the ball over, and the other team goes down to score the winning basket. Although, I was sure I applied the rule correctly, the human side of me could not help but to sympathize with the coach, who felt the TO should have been granted. She even shook my hand the next time I saw her and told me what a good official she thought I was, and the topic of the TO never came up, but I still have reservations about wheather I did the right thing within the spirit of the rule...I understand that by rule, I did what was right, but I still didn't feel good about the call...

[mick]

Originally posted by agmattbballref
Forgive my tardiness on chiming in here, but I have been away with military obligations...(this Army thing always interferes with my reffing...smile), ...

[snip]

I hear a TO request from behind me. I am almost certain it was the head coach, since I have heard her for most of the game...nothing despariging, but let's just say she had a good set of lungs, and a distinctive voice. However, because I could not see her I did not grant the TO, and almost immediately after the requesst was granted....

agmattbballref,

First of all, I thank you for doing that "Army thing".
Welcome home!

It seems you did not grant the time-out.

Keep in mind that you do not have to visually recognize the coach. A recognizable voice is sufficient.

Now, in your case, if I hear the request while the point guard has the ball, then turn to recognize the coach, then I will blow the whistle as I am turning back toward the ["Aw, shucks the ball is gone !!!?!."].

Then, however, I may have to tell the other coach that I had recognized the request "while their team still had the ball".
mick

[26 Year Gap]

Players can still call for timeout and good coaches should remind their players to do so. After all, if anyone can recognize a coach's yell, it is a player.