Shot clock

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BOBBYMO
its is not true 100% of the time that when a jump ball stays with the offence there is no reset!!!

Yeah, but most of us don't have time in our table pregame to go over all those scenarios. I just say, "there are a couple exceptions, but we'll deal with those if they happen".

Socal's list is ok, but here's what I tell my table people for a HS game:
"You've done this 1,000 times, right?" They usually nod and start to tune me out. "Good, then you get the short version. There's only four times we reset, ok? Change of possession, which includes a made basket; ball hits the rim on a shot -- no reset if a pass bounces off the rim; any foul; any kicked ball or elbow violation. So if the ball goes OOB and we stay the same way, no reset. If we have a held ball and the offense keeps it, no reset. There are a couple exceptions, but we won't have them tonight. Ok? Great. Thanks."

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by socalreff
Yes, every type of foul resets the shot clock in high school rules. If NCAA, a technical foul on the offense does not reset the shot clock.

Again, not necessarily. In HS, double fouls and simultaneous fouls go to the arrow. If the offense has the arrow, we would not reset.

(Except in Washington, I guess.)

[socalreff]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Again, not necessarily. In HS, double fouls and simultaneous fouls go to the arrow. If the offense has the arrow, we would not reset.

(Except in Washington, I guess.)

I guess I should have clarified--I'm talking California shot clock rules. Every type of foul resets the shot clock--doubles, technicals--doesn't matter. We've found it just makes it a lot easier for the officials and the table personnel.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by socalreff
I guess I should have clarified--I'm talking California shot clock rules.

Ok, since there really aren't HS shot clock rules, I should be a little slower to pounce on the subject. My bad. In MA, we play straight NCAA rules for the shot clock. So in the double foul scenario, we sort of have to combine the HS double foul rule (go to the arrow) with the NCAA shot clock rule (no reset when offense retains possession).

[Dudly]

Originally posted by socalreff

I guess I should have clarified--I'm talking California shot clock rules. Every type of foul resets the shot clock--doubles, technicals--doesn't matter. We've found it just makes it a lot easier for the officials and the table personnel.

Going off the assumption that your login name refers to southern CA...then it must be association specific. I do not remember that being directed to use that way.

[BOBBYMO]

[Edited by BOBBYMO on Apr 9th, 2005 at 07:30 AM]

[socalreff]

[QUOTE
I guess I should have clarified--I'm talking California shot clock rules. Every type of foul resets the shot clock--doubles, technicals--doesn't matter. We've found it just makes it a lot easier for the officials and the table personnel. [/B][/QUOTE]

Going off the assumption that your login name refers to southern CA...then it must be association specific. I do not remember that being directed to use that way. [/B][/QUOTE]

This rule applies everywhere in California--no exceptions. I know the guy who wrote the shot clock rules for CBOA. Every foul resets the shot clock. Always. If there is a technical foul on the offense--guess what--they aren't on offense anymore as the defense will get possession after the free throws. They get the full clock. Double fouls go to the arrow not the offense(as in NCAA) hence there is a reset always. Foul's a foul in CA Federation.

[socalreff]

"If we have a held ball and the offense keeps it, no reset. There are a couple exceptions, but we won't have them tonight. Ok? Great. Thanks."

You won't have them tonight? I had it happen to me 3 times this season. ( ball got stuck between the rim and the back board... JUMPBALL...... Arrow pointing to the offence) There is nothing in our control that can be done to avoid this type of play / sittuation
[/B][/QUOTE]

Huh? The ball getting stuck between the rim and the backboard isn't an exception. As soon as the ball hit the rim it got reset. That happens before the jump ball occurs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by socalreff
This rule applies everywhere in California--no exceptions. I know the guy who wrote the shot clock rules for CBOA. Every foul resets the shot clock. Always. If there is a technical foul on the offense--guess what--they aren't on offense anymore as the defense will get possession after the free throws. They get the full clock.

Dr. Bill White wrote the CIF modifications. They have been adopted by the State CIF Federated Council.

Originally posted by socalreff
Double fouls go to the arrow not the offense(as in NCAA) hence there is a reset always. Foul's a foul in CA Federation.

FLAT OUT WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Would you like to bet on this?


PS I'm just sticking up for Chuck because I was taught to always stand up for the little guy.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Apr 9th, 2005 at 03:45 AM]

[socalreff]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Dr. Bill White wrote the CIF modifications. They have been adopted by the State CIF Federated Council.

FLAT OUT WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Would you like to bet on this?


PS I'm just sticking up for Chuck because I was taught to always stand up for the little guy.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Apr 9th, 2005 at 03:45 AM]

Sure why not. What are the stakes?

P. 47 of instructors manual.(Quoting the eminent Dr. White) "Any time there is a floor violation or a personal or technical foul, the shot clock is to be reset..."
What do I win?

[Mark Dexter]

Remember - not every violation causes the shot clock to reset. A ball tipped OOB by the defense (without obtaining control) is given back to the offense with no reset of the shot clock.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by socalreff
Double fouls go to the arrow not the offense(as in NCAA) hence there is a reset always. Foul's a foul in CA Federation.

FLAT OUT WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Would you like to bet on this?


PS I'm just sticking up for Chuck because I was taught to always stand up for the little guy.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Apr 9th, 2005 at 03:45 AM] [/B][/QUOTE]

Sure why not. What are the stakes?

P. 47 of instructors manual.(Quoting the eminent Dr. White) "Any time there is a floor violation or a personal or technical foul, the shot clock is to be reset..."
What do I win? [/B][/QUOTE]

Now please turn to page 26 of the 2004-2005 CBOA membership handbook. There you will find the following:

J. ALTERNATING-POSSESSION (AP) SITUATIONS
Boys and Girls: When there is time remaining on the shot clock, during team control, the shot clock will not be reset when a defensive player causes a held ball or when other jump ball situations occur and the possession arrow favors the offensive team.
Examples are:
1. Team B player caused a held ball
2. The ball went out-of-bounds simultaneously touched by opponents
3. The ball went out-of-bounds and the officials don't know who last touched the ball (or disagree).
4. When a double foul occurs



Item four is new. It does not appear in the 2003-2004 or prior versions of the handbook. I checked going back to 2001.

Please be aware that the people on this forum are extremely well-versed in the rules. If you are going to come on here and make a definitive statement about something, then you had better be right. If not, someone else will have the correct information.

Now since you are new to the forum the stakes are small. You only have to face East and bow three times while saying, "I have learned something from a non-California official."

[socalreff]

I have bowed. Thanks for the info. I don't remember this coming up in class--I was probably just not paying attention. It's a good thing I didn't call any double fouls this season. I think I can count on 2 fingers the total I've ever called. How about a double technical foul--does it reset if the arrow favors the offense?

[Nevadaref]

Since point 4 doesn't specify personal or technical, I have to believe that it covers both.

The biggest problem with adopting a shot clock for NFHS play is that the timing rules and some of the rules about fouls are different from the NCAA. This means that the shot clock must be handled slightly differently.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Apr 13th, 2005 at 05:25 AM]