Worst. Technical. Ever.

[pauli]

any time a new rule or point of emphasis comes into effect, i am going to call it. i consider it an insult to the folk on the rules committee to ignore their efforts

[Adam]

I resent someone trying to steal my title. I called the worst technical ever; just last year. I know, because the coach told me so.

[SMEngmann]

I think this is a good discussion to bring up with the POEs for 06-07 having just come out. The POE of pulling the shirt out as a T in my opinion is a horrible POE because it basically puts an official between a rock and a hard place in a tight situation. Assuming the player hadn't cursed the official, if you're out there with a clear POE against pulling out the jersey as a T and a situation where an emotional and frustrated player is trying to show restraint, what do you do? If you issue a weak T here, you put a negative stamp on the game, but you uphold your duty to enforce the POEs (in my opinion strictly enforcing this is over-officious), or if you ignore or warn the action, then your assigning committee gets on you for not properly enforcing the POEs. This is why the rules committee should be more careful in determining proper POEs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Pennsylvania AA state championship, about to end right now. York Catholic had a ten-point lead earlier in the quarter, but a nice press has Beaver Falls up 58-54. York Catholic misses a shot with 1:50 left and BF rebounds. A quick foul on a YC kid, turns out to be his fifth. He is of course frustrated, but rather than saying a word, or jumping up and down, he walks a couple steps away, pulls his shirt up and puts the bottom of it in his mouth exposing half his torso. His face is clearly showing frustration. Official calls a T. BF hits 4 of 4 then 1 of 2 on the ensuing possession, and the game is over.

Yep, I would have made the same call and here's why:

2005-06 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
1. Sporting Behavior. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee continues to be concerned with player, coach and fan behavior. While administrators continue to focus on solutions, it is imperative that all parties involved accept responsibility and improve behavior. Specifically, the committee wants the following addressed:
A. Uniforms: Players are increasingly using their uniforms in unsporting ways. Examples include: Holding the uniform out from the chest area to display the team name to the opponent or fans; pulling the uniform out of the shorts in an emotional display; and removing the jersey either on the court or near the team bench, especially after a disqualification. The committee expects jerseys to be worn properly and remain on. New Rule 3-4-15 adds, "A player shall not remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt in the confines of the playing area." The result is a technical foul.
Uniforms must be worn as intended and the rule must be enforced. The jersey must be tucked in and shorts must be worn properly. When a player is in violation of the rule, the player is directed to leave the game. While an untucked jersey during the normal course of play is understandable until it can be corrected, too often there are multiple warnings for clear violations. Coaches bear a great responsibility in ensuring uniforms stay on team members. Officials must enforce the rule.

[Ref_ Fred]

I agree with the call, but not know all the surrounding cirmcumstances I really wouldn't comment other than some points to remember for the future. We are all human, we all make mistakes, but as an official we need to keep game management in mind. That call may have turned the outcome of the game. Could that official held from making that call?

I would like some opinions and comments on that question.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I think this is a good discussion to bring up with the POEs for 06-07 having just come out. The POE of pulling the shirt out as a T in my opinion is a horrible POE because it basically puts an official between a rock and a hard place in a tight situation. Assuming the player hadn't cursed the official, if you're out there with a clear POE against pulling out the jersey as a T and a situation where an emotional and frustrated player is trying to show restraint, what do you do? If you issue a weak T here, you put a negative stamp on the game, but you uphold your duty to enforce the POEs (in my opinion strictly enforcing this is over-officious), or if you ignore or warn the action, then your assigning committee gets on you for not properly enforcing the POEs. This is why the rules committee should be more careful in determining proper POEs.

I'm going to disagree. If we would all pay attention to this and uniformly (pun intended) take care of this during the season, it wouldn't put us between a rock and a hard place. This is a rule, it should be enforced. Players are expected to be disciplined enough not to travel late in the game, but if they do, you go get it. I won't say I never let a T go for pulling the shirt out (I did this year, a girl yanked it out at the bench after fouling out and I "didn't see it" because it was at the far end of the court). I should have made that call. I'm not saying I totally agree with the rule because I don't, but if its there, we need to enforce it. As always, just my $.02.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

I agree with the call, but not know all the surrounding cirmcumstances I really wouldn't comment other than some points to remember for the future. We are all human, we all make mistakes, but as an official we need to keep game management in mind. That call may have turned the outcome of the game. Could that official held from making that call?

I would like some opinions and comments on that question.

According to the story, the player got the technical foul because he cursed at the official. What other circumstances do you need to know? Are you saying that that an official, any official, should ever ignore a player cursing at him?

Lah me......

That ain't game management imo, Fred. That a lack of testicular fortitude.

[Ref_ Fred]

As I stated earlier, Not knowing all circumstance, Yes I would have T'd him in a NY second. But for him putting his shirt in his mouth and walking away as the posting stated. I would have looked at what was going on in the game. That is all part of what is discussed in Pregame. we make it mandatory. we normally try to discuss all game situation and even then we don't cover all, it's imposible. we "TRY". We ask that we meet at for 1 to 1 1/2 hour before game time.

As an official, I try not to be the outcome of the game.....

That is all I am stating, I'm not disagreeing with anyone's comments.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

As an official, I try not to be the outcome of the game.....

I can't agree with that philosophy. As an official, sometimes you have to be the outcome of the game.

Just call the game consistently and evenly from beginning to end, and no one will ever have any real complaints with you. Swallowing your whistle at the end because you don't want to be the "outcome of the game" is just wrong imo, if that is what you are referring to. If you ignore a righteous foul or violation at the end of a game by trying to rationalize that you didn't want to affect the outcome, then you really are affecting the outcome by screwing the team that didn't commit that foul or violation.

Jmo.....

[Ref_ Fred]

I'm not going to go into anymore detail. I agree with you. Call consistently and call evenly.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As an official, sometimes you have to be the outcome of the game.

Although I agree wholeheartedly with your entire point, I might have to subtly disagree with this statement. I think this is what scares a lot of officials into not making that tough call at the end of the game. If you look at it as the player was the one that committed the foul or violation, and all you're doing as an official is just making the proper call, you aren't determining the outcome, the players are. You're just making the call. The players determined the outcome.

I do think there are officials that talk themselves into not making a tough call by rationalizing that they don't want to be "determining the outcome". But they are, because they're screwing the team that didn't commit the foul or violation out of a posession or free throws. The only way an official helps determine an outcome is by making a wrong call, or no-call because they were out of position, or didn't have the kahonas.

[Ref_ Fred]

M&M I agree with you call what you see. I meant to outcome mostly toward the T'. Was it warranted. Possibly so. For all the right reasons. I again try to defend my post, based on the the original post stated." for putting his shirt in his mouth and wlking away"

If he cursed and put his shirt in his mouth and walking away. Hell yea T him up.

Again, the Player was probably frustrated, his 5th, game turning play, was he a senior, was he the top player and probably 10 other reasons. Non excusable. Let's get that out of the way.

I also see the other side of the coin, high visibility, News media, High school officials, Mayor, governor and maybe even President. There is no wrong answer to any posts. They are just opinions, from the look of it. there are many views on the issue. Most importantly I wasn't there and don't know what I would have done if I was. We are all being Monday morning officials of what we would have done. He made the right call.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred

I also see the other side of the coin, high visibility, News media, High school officials, Mayor, governor and maybe even President. There is no wrong answer to any posts. They are just opinions, from the look of it. there are many views on the issue. Most importantly I wasn't there and don't know what I would have done if I was. We are all being Monday morning officials of what we would have done. He made the right call.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here, but if you're saying there's justification for letting a player curse you on the floor without a T simply because it's a high profile game or he's a high profile player then we disagree 115%.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

"PIAA officials" - the same people that oversaw a full-scale brawl in the first half of a state championship without an ejection, then responded by moving inbound passes in front of a team's bench to one end or the other. JOKE

The 2003 state basketball championships debuting at the new GIANT Center will be remembered for an ugly incident that took place in the Boys Class AA final. A bench-clearing brawl erupted in the second quarter between Sto-Rox and Camp Hill Trinity. Apparently, the fight began when Sto-Rox junior John Geiger was about to inbound the basketball in front of the Trinity bench. Geiger claims he was grabbed by one of the players sitting on the bench. He then turned around and punched Shamrocks reserve Matt Wesner, starting the melee, which included fans coming onto the floor from the stands. Geiger was tossed from the game. Later in the contest, teammate Davon Huger was ejected for swinging at a Shamrocks player. Camp Hill Trinity won the game 66-49.

Damn Coach, you're 0 for 2.

A Pennsylvania Coach, consider the source.

[Ref_ Fred]

Never said that. Player will always get a T from me anytime a player, coach, bench personnel ever curse at me, an other officials, a player, a fan or anyone in the gym. As long as I'm on the floor for warmups, game time, half time, timeouts, inbetween quarters, inbetween calls, until I leave the gym and the game outcome has been determined. I will give a T to a player.


. .