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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 02:11pm
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some of my age long questions
#1:
is the tip of the hair (curly but not long) considered the "body" of a player? if the ball touches a player's hair only, (not the scalp), without any change in its direction and go OOB, do you consider that player is the "last touched" by the ball? does it apply to pony tail too?

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in? what if B1 touched the ball and A1's hand in the same time?

#3: when you did not see who's hand realy touched the ball last, do you usually use the direction of the ball and the motion of players hand at that moment to judge the call, if it seems appearent? or you usually give them a jump ball?

Thanks


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 02:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
some of my age long questions
#1:
is the tip of the hair (curly but not long) considered the "body" of a player? if the ball touches a player's hair only, (not the scalp), without any change in its direction and go OOB, do you consider that player is the "last touched" by the ball? does it apply to pony tail too?

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in? what if B1 touched the ball and A1's hand in the same time?

#3: when you did not see who's hand realy touched the ball last, do you usually use the direction of the ball and the motion of players hand at that moment to judge the call, if it seems appearent? or you usually give them a jump ball?

Thanks
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.

2. A's ball.

3. Yes, I have done that before. Not everytime though. I guess I'd have to see the play.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
some of my age long questions
#1:
is the tip of the hair (curly but not long) considered the "body" of a player? if the ball touches a player's hair only, (not the scalp), without any change in its direction and go OOB, do you consider that player is the "last touched" by the ball? does it apply to pony tail too?
I guess if you want to be really technical you could I guess. It makes no common sense in any way to do so?

Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in? what if B1 touched the ball and A1's hand in the same time?
That is a judgment issue. I would not try to complicate the issue.

Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
#3: when you did not see who's hand realy touched the ball last, do you usually use the direction of the ball and the motion of players hand at that moment to judge the call, if it seems appearent? or you usually give them a jump ball?
Again another judgment issue. I would not nit pick every call like this. I really think going to the AP arrow is usually bad if every situation you are trying to figure out whether a nail touches the ball last. Get in position and call what you see. If you are completely screened, then either get into position to make the call next time or ask for help. Do not use the AP arrow just because you "think" someone might have touched the ball. You better be totally clueless as to what happen before you use that method.

Peace
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Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 03:22pm
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Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.
Perhaps not in your book but the rule book does not require "the body" to touch the ball. It requires that the last "player" to touch the ball causes it to go OOB.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 03:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
some of my age long questions

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in? what if B1 touched the ball and A1's hand in the same time?
A's ball - the hand is part of the ball (4-24-2), so hitting A's hand while it is in contact with the ball is the same as hitting the ball.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 03:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in?

2. A's ball.
It may make sense to give to ball to A1 (if B1 does not touch the ball), but is that the opposite of what the rule says? because after all, A1 is the last one who touched the ball.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in?

2. A's ball.
It may make sense to give to ball to A1 (if B1 does not touch the ball), but is that the opposite of what the rule says? because after all, A1 is the last one who touched the ball.

Then give the ball to team A, problem solved.

You really are making this more complicated then it needs to be.

Peace
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Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.
Perhaps not in your book but the rule book does not require "the body" to touch the ball. It requires that the last "player" to touch the ball causes it to go OOB.
It seems that both opinions have their merit. I am wondering which one has the majority.
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Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:09pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in?

2. A's ball.
It may make sense to give to ball to A1 (if B1 does not touch the ball), but is that the opposite of what the rule says? because after all, A1 is the last one who touched the ball.

Then give the ball to team A, problem solved.

You really are making this more complicated then it needs to be.

Peace
No Peace just yet. which rule should we apply here, "hand is part of the ball" or "last one touched the ball"? the outcome are just the opposite.

Thanks.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonyp
Quote:
Originally posted by ysong
some of my age long questions

#2: A1 is holding the ball and looking for a pass, B1 sneaks up and bats A1's hand and sends the ball OOB. Let's say B1 did not touch the ball at all, so A1 is the last one touched the ball, do give the ball to B team for throw in? what if B1 touched the ball and A1's hand in the same time?
A's ball - the hand is part of the ball (4-24-2), so hitting A's hand while it is in contact with the ball is the same as hitting the ball.
Where in R4-24-2 does it say that the hand is part of the ball?

In my rule book, it says that it's legal for a defender to accidentally hit the opponent's hand while that hand is contacting the ball. There's no mention of the hand actually being part of the ball.
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Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysong


No Peace just yet. which rule should we apply here, "hand is part of the ball" or "last one touched the ball"? the outcome are just the opposite.

Thanks.

Call what you see. Call what you see. Call what you see. Call what you see.

Basketball is really not that complicated. Call what you see. And if you call what you see, you better be sure that is what you saw. If you spend your time nitpicking every little rule, you are going to paralyze yourself and not call anything. Or at the very least not make the right call very often.

Peace
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
[/B]
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.

[/B][/QUOTE]How about a shoe or a shirt? They aren't really part of the body either, are they?

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Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.

[/B]
How about a shoe or a shirt? They aren't really part of the body either, are they?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Why would a shoe have hair growing on it??
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
1. Touching the hair is not the body in my book.
Perhaps not in your book but the rule book does not require "the body" to touch the ball. It requires that the last "player" to touch the ball causes it to go OOB.
I will try to live with myself.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]
Why would a shoe have hair growing on it??

[/B][/QUOTE]Aw geeze, now you going all existential on me.
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