Another first for me

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Perhaps the women's mechanic is filtering into the men's side. I don't think that this is a bad mechanic either. I just hate the whistle prior to the endline throw-in that the women's game uses.

I agree with you about the T chopping time. You can thank the NBA for the whistle before the frontcourt endline throw-in.

[dblref]

The PT was used in the VA state tournament this year. Not sure if it has been used before because this was the first year I was able to attend.

In a couple of the games (there were 6 games), it appeared that the "chopping" official started the clock. Didn't notice it all the time and forgot to ask the officials about it.

[jbduke]

Nevada,

What is it that you hate about the FC endline throw-in?

[ChuckElias]

Got a call today from the state office to talk a little about the incident. The person was completely supportive and basically said that if the school doesn't suspend the coach, then the state will.

Talking about it again got me to thinking about how it could have been handled better. Two things are bouncing around my head.

First, I obviously should have brought the coaches together for an explanation before announcing the ruling.

Second, could I have gone to the timer to ask if he had definite knowledge of how much time was on the clock when the whistle blew? Could I have used his information to change the clock if he knew that more than a second ran off?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by jbduke
Nevada,

What is it that you hate about the FC endline throw-in?

The throw-in itself is fine. I'm against the extraneous whistle prior to it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Got a call today from the state office to talk a little about the incident. The person was completely supportive and basically said that if the school doesn't suspend the coach, then the state will.

Good stuff.

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Second, could I have gone to the timer to ask if he had definite knowledge of how much time was on the clock when the whistle blew? Could I have used his information to change the clock if he knew that more than a second ran off?

Chuck,

I think if you have definite knowledge of the timing, then make the call and not solicite the opinion of the minor officials. If you were not sure, then use your P, then the table. Then I'd be upset at myself for not knowing the timing.

Originally posted by ChuckElias
First, I obviously should have brought the coaches together for an explanation before announcing the ruling.

A quick explanation though. The coach will likely be more agitated than in the tunnel when you're standing there telling him his season is over. I might even use a line like, "Coach, I wish I could help you, but the rule doesn't permit me to extend the game."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Second, could I have gone to the timer to ask if he had definite knowledge of how much time was on the clock when the whistle blew? Could I have used his information to change the clock if he knew that more than a second ran off?

NFHS case book play 5.10.1SitE-- "The timer and scorer and the other official(s) can be used by the referee to gain definite information".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by socalreff
It's incredible to see the lack of rules knowledge in this forum. If the official sees time on the clock when the whistle blows, this is definite knowledge and you put the time on the clock. Point blank, end of story. Good thing this didn't happen in a game where there were observers who know the rules. Similar thing happened to me in a section final. Timeout was called, the clock wasn't stopped properly and we put the time back on because we had definite knowledge. That's the rule!!!

It sure is incredible to see the lack of rules knowledge on this forum.

Case in point-- YOU!

Read casebook play 5.10.1SitBComment and casebook play 5.10.1SitD(a)&(b). You might learn something about lag time allowed-- and the rules.

[socalreff]

Straight from page 41 in the comment: Lag time is defined as the time it takes for the official to look at the clock after he has blown the whistle. In the described action, the official saw the actual time on the clock. Lag time does not apply.
Pg. 45 Rule Book: Section 10 Art. 1 "The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved." Sounded to me like he had definite information.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by socalreff
Straight from page 41 in the comment: Lag time is defined as the time it takes for the official to look at the clock after he has blown the whistle. In the described action, the official saw the actual time on the clock. Lag time does not apply.
Pg. 45 Rule Book: Section 10 Art. 1 "The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved." Sounded to me like he had definite information.

Read case book play 5.10.1SitD(b). You can only put time back up if the timer's lag time stopping the clock is more than 1 second. That's stated in the COMMENT of the other case play too.

You really don't know or understand the rules, do you?

[ronny mulkey]

Originally posted by socalreff
Straight from page 41 in the comment: Lag time is defined as the time it takes for the official to look at the clock after he has blown the whistle. In the described action, the official saw the actual time on the clock. Lag time does not apply.
Pg. 45 Rule Book: Section 10 Art. 1 "The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved." Sounded to me like he had definite information.

Surfer,

Read this entire thread and you will see how your opinion fits in with Chuck's call. It is not that it is so much wrong as it just does not apply to Chuck's call. It was determined that Chuck was looking at the clock AS the ball went through. Therefore, no error occurred by the clock person. Game over.

Mulk

[socalreff]

If there was any lag time, it occurred between the time the coach called timeout and the official looked at the clock. He did not say he looked at the clock on the bucket. He said he looked at it after the whistle sounded. Hence, there would have been more than a second on the clock when the whistle blew. Therefore, you can put the time back up.
Follow-up question: If there is .7 left on the clock and red inbounds the ball to teammate who takes 2 dribbles and releases the ball before the horn, will you allow the goal? Gotta give the timer lag time from the time they see you chop the clock until there finger can hit the button, right? According to the logic heard here, count it!!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by socalreff


Follow-up question: If there is .7 left on the clock and red inbounds the ball to teammate who takes 2 dribbles and releases the ball before the horn, will you allow the goal? Gotta give the timer lag time from the time they see you chop the clock until there finger can hit the button, right? According to the logic heard here, count it!!

Uhmmmm....I'm quite sure the level of basketball officiating in SoCal is much higher than what you're showing us here.

You're kidding, right?

C'mon, tell us you're kidding. Please?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by socalreff
If there was any lag time, it occurred between the time the coach called timeout and the official looked at the clock. He did not say he looked at the clock on the bucket. He said he looked at it after the whistle sounded. Hence, there would have been more than a second on the clock when the whistle blew. Therefore, you can put the time back up.
Follow-up question: If there is .7 left on the clock and red inbounds the ball to teammate who takes 2 dribbles and releases the ball before the horn, will you allow the goal? Gotta give the timer lag time from the time they see you chop the clock until there finger can hit the button, right? According to the logic heard here, count it!!

The above has got absolutely nuthin' to do with the play we were discussing. You can bullsh*t and what-if from here to next year, but the fact still remains that you were completely wrong! If there was 0.6 seconds on the clock when the official blew the whistle and looked at it, and the clock then ran out, you CANNOT put that 0.6 seconds back on the clock. The rules won't let you. That's exactly what case book play 5.10.1SitD(b) states!!!

I agree with your statement that there is a lack of rules knowledge on this forum. Unfortunately, that applies mainly to your posts.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Apr 1st, 2005 at 01:02 PM]

[cmathews]

Originally posted by socalreff
If there was any lag time, it occurred between the time the coach called timeout and the official looked at the clock. He did not say he looked at the clock on the bucket. He said he looked at it after the whistle sounded. Hence, there would have been more than a second on the clock when the whistle blew. Therefore, you can put the time back up.
Follow-up question: If there is .7 left on the clock and red inbounds the ball to teammate who takes 2 dribbles and releases the ball before the horn, will you allow the goal? Gotta give the timer lag time from the time they see you chop the clock until there finger can hit the button, right? According to the logic heard here, count it!!

SoCal, you know maybe you should go re read the case book and such before you come in here flapping your jaws. "Lag" time only applies to stopping the clock, not starting it. This would be because as the ball is being inbounded it is possible to anticipate the time when the ball will be touched...In the stopping the clock, it happens then a reaction happens....So no, we won't "count it" assuming there is a 10 second count going, which there should be, but if not, then yeah, it could be counted....coming in here with 8 posts and flaming veteren guys is not the best way to enamour yourself to the rest of the board...just a little piece of advice, do with it what you wish