4 tenths of a second

[wolf1pack]

In a rec league game Monday night there were .4 seconds left on the clock. Team B throws the ball inbounds from the far end of the court,their player catches the ball facing away from his basket turns and shoots at his basket. Is it possible to catch, turn and shoot in .4 seconds.

[ChuckElias]

By rule, yes.

By the laws of nature, probably not.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
By rule, yes.

By the laws of nature, probably not.

Chuck,
I do not thnk the rule was meant to include the turn, but only the catch.
I think it is functionally unclear beyond the "tip only".
mick

[tmp44]

Originally posted by mick

Chuck,
I do not thnk the rule was meant to include the turn, but only the catch.
I think it is functionally unclear beyond the "tip only".
mick

Mick,

I understand what you're saying here, but if in the official's judgment the ball was released before the horn, by rule it cannot be waved off, correct? I say that because if we talking about a turn and shoot, from a ball thrown from OOB, neither official will have definite knowledge that more than .4 seconds elapsed (i.e., no one would have had a count during a running clock). I can see a situation where an official may wave it off because it is just so obvious that the basket is no good, but without a dribble, official's count, or anything else that may give an official definite knowledge , I'm just unsure as to how it could be waved off.

[BktBallRef]

"One thousand one." TWEET!!!

That's definite knowledge.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick

Chuck,
I do not thnk the rule was meant to include the turn, but only the catch.
I think it is functionally unclear beyond the "tip only".
mick

There's no prohibition against it. In that case, we usually say that it's legal. You can't catch and shoot with 0.3 or less, but you can catch and shoot with more than that. If you're fast enough, no rule prohibits you from catching and turning and shooting with more than 0.3.

Somebody better make sure that the clock starts on the first touch, tho.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

There's no prohibition against it. In that case, we usually say that it's legal. You can't catch and shoot with 0.3 or less, but you can catch and shoot with more than that. If you're fast enough, no rule prohibits you from catching and turning and shooting with more than 0.3.

Somebody better make sure that the clock starts on the first touch, tho.

Yes, Chuck ,I certainly agree with your assessment that it could happen, but I would not say it is a rule, because it is not.

From the FWIW department, today I caught a Sportcenter bit of Mike Bibby (last night) turning and shooting with 0.6 and though the score counted, it seems he was late on the release. It seemed the clock started slowly vs. ESPN's after the fact stopwatch.

mick

[mick]

Originally posted by tmp44

Mick,

I understand what you're saying here, but if in the official's judgment the ball was released before the horn, by rule it cannot be waved off, correct? I say that because if we talking about a turn and shoot, from a ball thrown from OOB, neither official will have definite knowledge that more than .4 seconds elapsed (i.e., no one would have had a count during a running clock). I can see a situation where an official may wave it off because it is just so obvious that the basket is no good, but without a dribble, official's count, or anything else that may give an official definite knowledge , I'm just unsure as to how it could be waved off.

Todd,
I agree with you.
My point was not that the basket couldn't happen, but was that it is not a rule that it did happen.
mick

[bradfordwilkins]

What I want to know is why didn't the refs just go watch the Instant Replay?

I kid, I kid...

[mick]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
What I want to know is why didn't the refs just go watch the Instant Replay?

I kid, I kid...

bradfordwilkins,
An interesting point in that Mike Bibby [NBA] game.
The official explained to Frattello?? that they (officials) checked the ball in the air before the horn, but were not allowed to check the proper starting of the clock.
mick

[refnrev]

wolf1,
Was the kid's father running the clock?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by mick

bradfordwilkins,
An interesting point in that Mike Bibby [NBA] game.
The official explained to Frattello?? that they (officials) checked the ball in the air before the horn, but were not allowed to check the proper starting of the clock.
mick

Well, especially seeing that they're the ones who are supposed to start the clock . . .

There's always going to be some delay in starting the clock, at least until they can somehow put the PT system into the ball. Even if replay was allowed, it's pretty hard to determine exactly when the clock started vis a vis when it should have started.

[canuckrefguy]

I imagine this has been brought up before...

What happens if the clock operator in this case (:00.4) is late (for argument let's say a full second) and allows a shooter more time than is deserved for a last shot - and it goes in. What now?

[stmaryrams]

Had it happen with 2+ seconds left this year.

Clock never started.

After a shot and rebound then some dribbling I just whistled the game over.