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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
Get in, get done, and get out.
The referee did get done. He did get done a crappy job.

Individuals like those are the ones that pull down the officiating world, when they don't adjust to help that is provided to them, year after year, as ref18 has noted.

My first year reffing (in fact, something like my 5th game ever), I called an OB violation for bouncing the ball OB ona throw-in. My P, a woman (Paunee Pepper (sp?), for you JR) told me that she "didn't think that was a rule." I never called it again, including before I knew it wasn't illegal.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:33pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
I'm not ripping on the volunteer, I volunteer for this too. I also try to give the kids a well reffed game, the same game I'd give if I was on the floor doing a boys varsity game. The fact that I've discussed this rule and others with this official in the past, but yet nothing seems to stick with him. I think if he doesn't want to do the best possible job, then he's doing the kids a disservice, and he shouldn't be there.

In my opinion there were other refs more deserving of that game. Refs who care, refs who know what there doing, and will give the kids a well reffed game.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of adults who would be reluctant to take advice from an 18 year old. Right or wrong. Perhaps it's the way you "discussed" it. Perhaps it's something entirely else. Point is, you will find that there are ways to communicate with people that will be effective and ways that will be ineffective. Maybe if you looked at this situation from a different perspective you would see that perhaps you are more a part of the problem, and not enough a part of the solution.

I'll bet this guy is doing the best possible job that he can do. Why volunteer his time if he was trying to be bad at what he's doing? You think you know more, and maybe you do, but it's really irrelevant. Work on your communication skills so that when you do try and educate someone about a particular rule, it comes across in a way they will accept your input. Being a good referee and teaching someone else to be a good referee are 2 entirely different skills.
Whenever I do a game with a new official, whether he or she be 16 or 50, I will try to give some advice. Some times, I pull out my pre-game board and we'll go over positioning, other times, I will give them advice on mechanics, or I may just give them a proper interpretation of a rule. I communicate my advice in a nice way, and usually I get thanked by the official for the advice. When I'm doing triple-headers with the same partner, I can even see them using some of the pointers I gave them.

No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:51pm
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Hey Ref18,

Never pick on volunteers doing youth sports. If it wasn't for the volunteers (coaches, board members, concession stands etc.) there would be no youth sports. Also sometimes it appears that an official cost a team a game. The reality is that if they made their free throws didn't turn the ball over etc. this wouldn't have been a factor. Good calls and bad calls are part of the game. Just don't pick on volunteers.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:55pm
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Take it from my past experience - ripping on any ref on this website is not a good idea, whether they deserve it or not.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 04:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 04:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.
What arrogance on your part.

IMO Ref18 is 100% correct in his concern over this situation. The league itself is also to some extent to blame in this for not providing training for the volunteer refs.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 04:51pm
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I think where it is spelled "defence," there are a lot of people there who are "oot and aboot playin' ockey."

Eh?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 04:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.
What arrogance on your part.

IMO Ref18 is 100% correct in his concern over this situation. The league itself is also to some extent to blame in this for not providing training for the volunteer refs.
Arrogance on my part? That's funny. So the both of you think a volunteer ref should be every bit as schooled as a paid one? That's brilliant. If the league wanted trained refs, they could pay for them. What "situation" is so significant that it should raise everyone's concern? Is it that a volunteer made a potentially bad call? The horror of it all. God knows trained refs never make a bad call...

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 05:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.
What arrogance on your part.

IMO Ref18 is 100% correct in his concern over this situation. The league itself is also to some extent to blame in this for not providing training for the volunteer refs.
Arrogance on my part? That's funny. So the both of you think a volunteer ref should be every bit as schooled as a paid one? That's brilliant. If the league wanted trained refs, they could pay for them. What "situation" is so significant that it should raise everyone's concern? Is it that a volunteer made a potentially bad call? The horror of it all. God knows trained refs never make a bad call...

No where am I expecting him to be as trained as we are, but I am expecting some level of training. At the beginning of the season, I ran a training clinic for all refs in this league, he didn't show. At it I covered several of the myths about basketball officiating and some other misconceptions, this was one of them. If you are going to volunteer, then volunteer to do your best game. Don't slack off because it's only the kids who suffer.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 05:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game.
You clearly just don't get it. Maybe when you grow up you will. Good luck.
What arrogance on your part.

IMO Ref18 is 100% correct in his concern over this situation. The league itself is also to some extent to blame in this for not providing training for the volunteer refs.
Arrogance on my part? That's funny. So the both of you think a volunteer ref should be every bit as schooled as a paid one? That's brilliant. If the league wanted trained refs, they could pay for them. What "situation" is so significant that it should raise everyone's concern? Is it that a volunteer made a potentially bad call? The horror of it all. God knows trained refs never make a bad call...

No where am I expecting him to be as trained as we are, but I am expecting some level of training. At the beginning of the season, I ran a training clinic for all refs in this league, he didn't show. At it I covered several of the myths about basketball officiating and some other misconceptions, this was one of them. If you are going to volunteer, then volunteer to do your best game. Don't slack off because it's only the kids who suffer.
What does "then volunteer to do your best game" mean to you? Never make a mistake? Do you ever make a mistake? Just last week you made a statement regarding a backcourt violation situation that was blatantly wrong. Should you be castigated for that because you are expected to be perfect since you are "patched"? If the kids are suffering so much because they lost a game, then something else is very wrong here. You seem to think that because this guy didn't heed the advice of the master (you), he has no business being on the court, as a volunteer no less. What utter nonsense.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 05:34pm
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Agree with Smitty

I find it a little odd that you were able to watch the White team play "awesome defence" and yet still keep your eye on the thrower the whole time and was able to see him/her shuffle his feet .
Did you ask this ref what he saw ? Is it possible that they shuffled too far ?
I think you are being waaaay too tough on this guy....I sense that there is some dislike between the two of you . You seem to be up on your games but you may be a little too much for a guy who just wants to volunteer some time but not all day including training sessions and pre-game .
What grade level is this ? From your description of the games it is most likely very young kids ....
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 05:58pm
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Posts: 50
Battle

Dude, I warned you...you're fighting a losing battle. Cut your losses. I was in the same predicament you are a couple of months ago...saw a horribly officiated game and complained...got nothing but grief here for complaining. You're entitled to your opinion, but you won't get any sympathy here. These guys are a tight knit group. As for the spelling errors, you'll get no sympathy from me for that.. I'm a Legal Secretary and it's my job to find those!

My post went about 5 pages long before I finally deleted it. Then someone else decided to revive it and ream me some more. Trust me, just walk away from this subject.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 06:11pm
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Kris, you had other issues.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 06:30pm
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Julian,
If you feel that strongly about it, then talk to the league about mandating some sort of attendance at your little training session. Otherwise, the fact that he's doing it for free lets him off my hook. Some officials just don't want any help, because they don't want to get better. They've got other priorities, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I will also say this. Like it or not, there are always going to be people who are hard to communicate with. Take the challenge.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 28, 2005, 07:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ref18
[B
Whenever I do a game with a new official, whether he or she be 16 or 50, I will try to give some advice. Some times, I pull out my pre-game board and we'll go over positioning, other times, I will give them advice on mechanics, or I may just give them a proper interpretation of a rule. I communicate my advice in a nice way, and usually I get thanked by the official for the advice. When I'm doing triple-headers with the same partner, I can even see them using some of the pointers I gave them.

No one really has complained or ignored my advice like this guy. If he wants to make up his own rules, then he should give the game to someone who will give the players a properly reffed game. [/B]
I think this is a little too arrogant (IMO we all have some arrogance). It could be the wording since it is hard to convey all communication electronically but it seems sort of preachy to me. I think there are many who wouldn't come across like this and they have been doing this a lot longer than you. I don't want to come down on you though since you are here, you are young and you are trying. I would just say to work on your own game and leave the advice alone unless asked.
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