Out of Area Calls

[Chess Ref]

Tuesday night GJV. Press is on I am at Division line ball pinballing all over place. Ball pops out A1 & B1 pop out . A1 drives B1 steps in. I am at two feet from endline and four feet from layup. Crash-I had no call i couldn't see that either player got there first so my call was basically a no call. From out in the neverlands we have a Tweet. i look towards the sound . Its my partner in front of the bench of the team furthest from the action. He makes the Player Control call. I look at partner-gym goes dead silent. I say to him at next dead ball " you can't make that call " He flips out on me. "He has been reffing rec ball for years" (I can tell . it shows) . People fall down he is gonna make that call everytime . So now this thread shows up a little too late to help but now I have tools for next time. Varsity ref ( Di, JUCO) shows up right before halftime. Partner makes call from baseline-play is at division line -I am at division line . Varsity ref asked him about the call . he goes off in the locker room at Varsity ref. I get my own personal halftime show. At one point i thought I was going to have to break up a physical fight.

I know on this board there are Refs who do a good job at rec ball. In our area rec/high school refs are NOT one and the same. I can go to subvarsity, without knowing the refs and point out the ones who have done rec ball. The End

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by Chess Ref
Tuesday night GJV. Press is on I am at Division line ball pinballing all over place. Ball pops out A1 & B1 pop out . A1 drives B1 steps in. I am at two feet from endline and four feet from layup. Crash-I had no call i couldn't see that either player got there first so my call was basically a no call. From out in the neverlands we have a Tweet. i look towards the sound . Its my partner in front of the bench of the team furthest from the action. He makes the Player Control call. I look at partner-gym goes dead silent. I say to him at next dead ball " you can't make that call " He flips out on me. "He has been reffing rec ball for years" (I can tell . it shows) . People fall down he is gonna make that call everytime . So now this thread shows up a little too late to help but now I have tools for next time. Varsity ref ( Di, JUCO) shows up right before halftime. Partner makes call from baseline-play is at division line -I am at division line . Varsity ref asked him about the call . he goes off in the locker room at Varsity ref. I get my own personal halftime show. At one point i thought I was going to have to break up a physical fight.

I know on this board there are Refs who do a good job at rec ball. In our area rec/high school refs are NOT one and the same. I can go to subvarsity, without knowing the refs and point out the ones who have done rec ball. The End

Obviously I didn't see the play, but if you have a big crash you probably need a whistle. Those are called game savers. If they got there at the exact same time it would depend on LGP ect. Read the board to see how to call the block/charge correctly.

As far as addressing "vet" officials who are calling in your primary, I always learned keep your mouth shut and your ears open. When being evaluated they will get there comments and as far as moving up get yourself on tape so you can see what you can do better. If someone makes the wrong call, i.e, traveling when a player is dribbling, you just have to smile and go on.

One way you can talk to a player who wants to know why they got a foul that your partner called you can just respond with I'm not sure what my partner saw, you will have to ask him/her.

[Starman311]

Interesting responses. I'm just curious, however, if there is a no call by the lead official in the play described at the start of this message (jump shot on the baseline) and the trail official calls a foul when near the half court on the weak side (I'm making this assumption), is it ever appropriate for the lead official in this case to immediately call a "pow wow" and attempt to talk the trail official out of making the call? Or to go even further, can the lead official every overrule this call in this situation (assuming the trail sticks to his guns)?

What if there are 3 refs working the game? Can the 3rd ref act as a "referee" in this situation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Starman311
1) I'm just curious, however, if there is a no call by the lead official in the play described at the start of this message (jump shot on the baseline) and the trail official calls a foul when near the half court on the weak side (I'm making this assumption), is it ever appropriate for the lead official in this case to immediately call a "pow wow" and attempt to talk the trail official out of making the call?

2) Or to go even further, can the lead official every overrule this call in this situation (assuming the trail sticks to his guns)?

3)What if there are 3 refs working the game? Can the 3rd ref act as a "referee" in this situation?

1) No

2) No

3) No

[JRutledge]

First of all you cannot "overrule" another official on a call.

You can have a brief conversation with a partner if you both have the same thing or there is an issue with a certain aspect of a call. Like whether the basket counts or they might be a violation that would eliminate a foul or violation. That is very rare though.

What should happen is you should discuss this in pregame and get the point across about calling your area and deal with some situations that might suggest when that happens or when it does not. In 3 person there are situations when an official can call outside of their area. To know those situations usually you have to have some knowledge of the system and to know what is acceptable. For example there are times when the Trail is going to make certain calls in the Leads area and the lead is probably not watching the ball. The trail almost always has the ball to come extent because they have the 5 second count (NF and Men's college). This is why the pregame meeting is so important. You do not want to be surprised on the court. Then if there is a situation, discuss it at halftime or even a quarter break. If a partner called something in my area I just make the comment, "what did you see at....?” I usually will try to remember the time on the clock when the call was made to bolster my question. It is possible that they had a better angle and you can at least find out or drive home the point of calling in your area and trusting your partner.

Peace

[nukewhistle]

This is exactly what our top rated official in our over 100 members officials organization said to me in my first year of officiating. I always thought it should be "Practice what you preach"

[Chess Ref]

Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on a "game saver"? I believe I have the general concept but would like to hear some feedback on it. thanks Mike