Out of Area Calls

[nukewhistle]

I am a 4th year official and had a situation where I was the lead and my 20 year plus veteran official was on the trail. It was late in the 4th qtr with Team B holding a slim lead. A1 was inbounding the ball on the baseline and passed it to A2 on the baseline who attempted a short jump shot with B2 standing with his hands straight up and the only contact made if any was initiated by A2. The trail official calls a foul on B2 and it was clearly not a foul directly in front of me. The player B2 looks at me and gives me the what did I do wrong look and I wanted tell him nothing but of course you never sell out on your partner. If I had made that out of area call he would have been upset! The play never affected the outcome of Team B winning the game. I never said anything to the other official after the game but it bugged me the rest of the evening. How does a official handle issues like this in an association known as the "Good Old Boys"?

[Junker]

Nicely ask him after the game what he saw. Maybe there was something he picked up that you didn't since he was very experienced. If he has an answer you totally don't agree with just nod and say "I see why you called it" and move on, and disagree to yourself.

[ditttoo]

Good advice. "Hey partner, what did you see WAY across the gym right in front of me that I missed 'cause I sure didn't see ANYTHING" is probably not the best approach in a situation like yours. It is quite possible that your more experienced partner did indeed have a call that you weren't aware of (maybe?). But certainly, if you approach the matter straightforwardly in the genuine interest of learning and improving (as well as 'assuming' your partner "made the right call") you'll be better off. If you discover that your partner might have "missed" the call, then you'll be able to quietly learn a valuable lesson - either way, why piss off the "good ole boy" if you don't have to; no good will come of that.

Good luck! Let us know what happens.

[Dudly]

Let me start by saying I have only been doing this for 3 years and still have alot to learn.

I always read about the 10+ year vet who is doing this or that, I hear from vets in my association about how they can do this or that because they are vets and they understand and know how the flow of the game/play will go.
So here's my stirring of the pot. What's the deal with some of these vets? They preach professionalism and a professional appearance yet stand before us with the furniture disease (chest has fallen into their drawers). I go and watch some of their games and they appear to be quite lazy and sloppy.

So do I have complacency to look forward to? We are always told to work for the next level yet the ones preaching this seem to have reached their plateau.

And so ends the ranting of an angry Dudly. Thanks for listening.

[LarryS]

Good advice above.

This happened to me twice in my first year. First time I asked my partner what he saw and all he said was "A foul...learn to call it." I so much wanted to say something equally tacky but I held my tongue. The second time, when I brought up the situation after the game my partner said "Don't ask me what I saw...you had perfect position, it was right in front of you and you passed on the call. I had no business blowing my whistle and I am sorry I made you look bad." He then said it looked like B pushed with the down hand while trying to block the shot up high and asked if I noticed that hand. I said yes and he added "Thanks, now I really feel bad."

Hopefully your partner will not be like my first.

[Mark Padgett]

Every time there's a discussion about calling out of area, I am reminded of a comment made by former NBA coach Jack Ramsey. He was coaching the Trailblazers in the late 70s when he yelled at an official about not making a call. The official replied that it "wasn't his call". Ramsey said, "You're an official. If it isn't your call, whose is it - the popcorn guy?"

[JRutledge]

Dudly,

Veterans are just as different as the inexperienced officials. Not everyone has the same commitment or talent because they officiating for a certain period of time.

Peace

[Dudly]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Dudly,

Veterans are just as different as the inexperienced officials. Not everyone has the same commitment or talent because they officiating for a certain period of time.

Peace

JRut,
Just felt like venting. I despise the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

[Almost Always Right]

I had an instance liekt this and at half-time I said, "Hey I am glad you came and got that call, what did you see from your side?" I believe that is a good place to start the discussion.
You give them instant gratification and then give them a chance to make them believe they are teaching you. People are more likely to divulge info. if they believe they are "teaching" or "helping" you. Meanwhile you will gain respect from that official and have more of a free reign to communicate how you wish.
AAR

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dudly


JRut,
Just felt like venting. I despise the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality.

I do too. Just consider the source. If a veteran that has can never get past a minimal level in the playoffs is telling you what to do (over several years), then stop listening to them. You have to consider who is telling you what to do. Some people should be listened to a lot. There are many that no one should listen to. When you see a guy work you can draw your own conclusion.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by nukewhistle
I am a 4th year official and had a situation where I was the lead and my 20 year plus veteran official was on the trail. It was late in the 4th qtr with Team B holding a slim lead. A1 was inbounding the ball on the baseline and passed it to A2 on the baseline who attempted a short jump shot with B2 standing with his hands straight up and the only contact made if any was initiated by A2. The trail official calls a foul on B2 and it was clearly not a foul directly in front of me. The player B2 looks at me and gives me the what did I do wrong look and I wanted tell him nothing but of course you never sell out on your partner. If I had made that out of area call he would have been upset! The play never affected the outcome of Team B winning the game. I never said anything to the other official after the game but it bugged me the rest of the evening. How does a official handle issues like this in an association known as the "Good Old Boys"?

The next trip down the floor get a call right in front of him, which is equally as bad, for the sake of crew consistency.

[nukewhistle]

I just want to thank everyone for their prompt responses to my subject on out of area calls. This is a very good active officials forum.

[golfdesigner]

I'm L partner is back by table as T. Boys 8th grade travel league.
B1 "falls" to floor and recovers a loose ball under A's basket [in lane opposite side of table]. B1 Is on floor on knees when he gains control of loose ball. As rest of players turn and head down floor to play defense, B1 begins his dribble while still on his knees. Then stands up to start down floor. My partner puts air in his whistle and calls traveling; and asks for ball to in-bound it table-side at FT line extended.

It was right in front of me [no more than 6-feet or so], IMO a good play on B1's part, from my view B1 definately started dribble B4 he got up off his knees.

What to do, I was going to let my partner live and die by the call. I don't want to "over-rule" him. We did talk about it at half-time. But I don't think the conversation was going anywhere and just let it go.

Questions to ask:
Why is he even looking there?
Did you see the entire play? Did you see B1 start his dribble B4 standing?
Why inbound at sideline by FT line extended, why not at baseline nearest to violation?
Any others?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by golfdesigner
I'm L partner is back by table as T. Boys 8th grade travel league.
B1 "falls" to floor and recovers a loose ball under A's basket [in lane opposite side of table]. B1 Is on floor on knees when he gains control of loose ball. As rest of players turn and head down floor to play defense, B1 begins his dribble while still on his knees. Then stands up to start down floor. My partner puts air in his whistle and calls traveling; and asks for ball to in-bound it table-side at FT line extended.

It was right in front of me [no more than 6-feet or so], IMO a good play on B1's part, from my view B1 definately started dribble B4 he got up off his knees.

What to do, I was going to let my partner live and die by the call. I don't want to "over-rule" him. We did talk about it at half-time. But I don't think the conversation was going anywhere and just let it go.

Questions to ask:
Why is he even looking there?
Did you see the entire play? Did you see B1 start his dribble B4 standing?
Why inbound at sideline by FT line extended, why not at baseline nearest to violation?
Any others?

That situation, in that type of game, I'm not going to be that diplomatic when I talk to them. It will be more like, " Make another AWFUL call right in front of me and you will be singing sorprano for a week."

[golfdesigner]

Thanks, I'll remember that one.