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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 03:48pm
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Hi all!

I worked four games on a 7th grade-only tournament this week-end. I would never have thought I would've given 3 technical fouls during these games!

I gave the first T yesterday. Team A was losing 64-12 (no typo here...), 4th quarter. Team A was settled in attacking zone; 30 seconds violation. The boy from team A who had the ball at the moment I called the violation slams the ball to the ground (ok, a 13-year-old slam, but still a slam), swearing silently. Whack. As you can imagine, it had no visible effect on the turn-out of the game...

I gave two other Ts in the same game this morning (new record...). I didn't realize it at that moment but one of the teams that were playing (let's say team A) was the one I gave the first T against yesterday! 1st quarter, 3 or 4 minutes to play. Team B's coach was giving us a hard time. He talked to us but it was nothing but "What's that!?" or "He was standing straight!", etc. I called a foul against team B on the shooter (2 FTs) and as I went to report the foul at the table he started protesting. I just could'nt ignore him since I was table side. The assistant coach was next to him "talking" to me, too, but I wasn't paying attention to him at that time. Then it was my turn, I counter-attacked . I said to him authoritatively: "Coach, I don't want to hear you for the rest of the game". Then I realized there was absolutely no noise in the gym except for the buzz of the lights. Everyone were listening closely to each word I threw to the annoying coach. "If you have something pertinent to say or pertinent questions to ask us, we'll be happy to listen to you and discuss. If not, I don't want to hear you for the remainder of the game." Then I don't remember clearly what he said but it was in the range of "It's all about your reffing" or something like that. Forming my hands into a "T", I told him "We'll end this conversation here." I turn to the table, report the foul, and go to the opposite side. While I was doing this, the coach told me that I didn't whistle before calling the T... It was true, but BTW, do we absolutely have to whistle when shooting a T? Anyway, 4 FTs for team A and ball possession.
2nd quarter. Timeout. My partner stands ready for inbound on team A's baseline. The 50-seconds buzzer sounds. Team B's coach (yep, this one) tells my partner he wants to talk to him. Of course, my partner says no, because he sees the teams are getting ready to return on the court. So this is where the fun begins. The coach walks toward my partner and he is now practically under the basket! My partner tells him to back off. He replies "You're avoiding me!" I'm at mid court and I see this. I yell to the coach, again quite authoritatively : "Coach, return to your coaching box!". He replies that he is talking to my partner. I respond : "This is not the time! Return to your coaching box now!" He does so. The teams are walking from the bench toward the inbound area. I then see the assisstant coach, standing next to the table, trying to talk to me. I immediately tell him authoritatively () to sit down. He doesn't move. "Sit down now!". He keeps staring at me and puts his arms on his hips (you know, the "block" signal ), contesting me. How arrogant! WHACK! There you go. Now I hear a fan yelling "It's a basketball game, not a referee game!" (I laugh inside myself).
At halftime, team B's coach asked us for a conversation. We agreed. We had a nice one, actually. To make a long story short, we told ourselves that none of us three was there to piss anyone off. The second half unfolded almost like a fairytale. No problem with any coach (except for some "Could you watch for #22, he pushes on rebounds" or "Watch for the parking in the key", but I don't consider this as problems). Team A (you know, those who lost 68-14 or so yesterday) were losing by approx. 6 points and finally won the game 38-36. They won thanks to the nice gift of 4 free throws the opposing team staff offered them. God, do I like when this happens, when I actually teach something to the coach .

Damn, that's a novel I've just written! Hope it wasn't boring!

So, what do you think of all that? Did I do something wrong? Thank you guys a lot. I've learned much since I've joined this forum.

Oh! One more thing. The referee I worked with on the previous game I did this morning said he gave a T to the coach (yep! still this one) yesterday! So this weekend his team has an average of 1 technical foul per game!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 04:01pm
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Thumbs up

Did you do anything wrong? Nothing major, that's for sure. The coach wanted to see how far he could push you. You showed him what your personal limits are. He was smart enough then not to keep on pushing. Good job of keeping the game under control.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 04:29pm
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally posted by Wise Weasel
BTW, do we absolutely have to whistle when shooting a T?
Thanks for that, Wise Weasel.
Interesting.

Yesterday, during a dead ball, I "T'd" a coach without using my whistle. I didn't need to stop the clock or need to get anyone's attention, so I just did it.

mick
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 05:01pm
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Thanks JR. It's refreshing to get some positive feedback especially after a difficult game.

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Yesterday, during a dead ball, I "T'd" a coach without using my whistle. I didn't need to stop the clock or need to get anyone's attention, so I just did it.
Right. I also don't want to fumble for my whistle, especially in a tense situation!
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 05:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wise Weasel

Right. I also don't want to fumble for my whistle, especially in a tense situation!
Yes, the situation may be tense, but the administration should appear quite "matter of fact".
mick

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      #6 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 10:13pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
    Did you do anything wrong? Nothing major, that's for sure.
    Nothing major but what about the minor things?
    Know that I aim for your perfection, O great Jurassic Referee
    Seriously, I like to know where my mistakes and weaknesses are, even the smallest ones.

    Thanks!
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      #7 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 10:24pm
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    In my game this coach would have been gone, I would have whacked him again for being in the coaches box. Personally I think your conversations were too long, just keep them short and simple. One of the best things you can do is give him the stop sign with your hand and tell him "that's enough." Aren't 3 games during youthball a regularity?
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      #8 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 10:30pm
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    What's a 30 second violation? Are you using a shot clock in 7-grade games, up there, eh?
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      #9 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 10:34pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by QuebecRef87
    [/B]
    Nothing major but what about the minor things?

    [/B][/QUOTE]Just one very, very minor thing on something that I try to do. Take it fwiw. You told the coach that you didn't want to hear any more from him. I usually just say "that's enough" or show him the stop sign. If you say that you don't want to hear from him, you might leave the impression that you're also banning him from normal questions or conversation. Personally, I've always found that the fewer words I say, the less chance I have of getting myself in trouble. If I do end up having to unload somebody, and they want to put in a complaint about it, they can't quote silence.

    As I said, very minor. I thought you did a good job keeping contol of the situation while not taking a bunch of crap at the same time either.

    [Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 6th, 2005 at 10:36 PM]
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      #10 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 10:56pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by TriggerMN
    What's a 30 second violation? Are you using a shot clock in 7-grade games, up there, eh?
    lol I think he meant after 30 seconds there was a violation, but I could be wrong.
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      #11 (permalink)  
    Old Sun Feb 06, 2005, 11:44pm
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    QuebecRef87

    You asked for honest feedback... So here it is:

    I agree, the less said to coaches the better. That does not mean that you avoid them, but keep your contact with them professional (businesslike), clear, and concise. Like others have said before, DO NOT VERBALIZE ULTIMATUMS!”

    Based on your post, it appears that you like to “overexplain” things, which makes you susceptible to further challenges. Usually a brief response in passing is enough to appease the coach. Examples: “Coach, I heard you.” “Coach, your player ... touched it last, had contact on the shooter, etc…” State, in as few words as possible, what you saw that caused the call or “no-call” the play. Most times, this will end the issue. If the coach wants to continue the challenge, end the conversation respectfully with a statement of this sort: "Coach, I have explained what I saw and that's my call."

    If you feel it is necessary to redirect (throttle) a coach do it in a calm and collected manner, but with a firm voice. The classic action is to use the visual-to-all universal stop sign (hand up with palm facing the coach) “Coach, I have heard enough.” If the coach wants to continue the attack you have politely let the coach they have exceeded your tolerance and have earned the "T".

    Ultimately, you will develop your own personal style and comfort zone of how to manage coaches effectively.

    Best wishes with your upcoming games.

    Willie
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      #12 (permalink)  
    Old Mon Feb 07, 2005, 10:13pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by TriggerMN
    What's a 30 second violation? Are you using a shot clock in 7-grade games, up there, eh?
    Well, first of all you must know the categories are quite different from the States up here. For high school, we have three main categories and for each one, there are three divisions (A, AA and AAA, AAA being the elite). The teams in the tournament I worked in this weekend were all 7th grade only players, which equals pretty much the A division.

    Anyway, I'll get to the point. In "A" division, the shot clock is optional. However, If the gym in which we play in has one and that we have someone to operate it, we will use it. In tournaments, though, we almost always have one.
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      #13 (permalink)  
    Old Mon Feb 07, 2005, 10:18pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by Snake~eyes
    Quote:
    Originally posted by TriggerMN
    What's a 30 second violation? Are you using a shot clock in 7-grade games, up there, eh?
    lol I think he meant after 30 seconds there was a violation, but I could be wrong.
    No, I really meant shot clock violation. Sorry for the misunderstanding. In French we say "30 seconds violation" (litterally translated). Or maybe it's just a matter of terminology, because we are using FIBA rules up here (moving to NCAA next year I think).
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      #14 (permalink)  
    Old Mon Feb 07, 2005, 10:23pm
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    Thank you very much JR and williebfree for your comments. I really appreciate this.

    You're both right, I got a little bit out of myself with that coach. I also noticed during my last few games that I'm quite spontaneous when I have to deal with staff members or players...
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      #15 (permalink)  
    Old Mon Feb 07, 2005, 10:28pm
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    Quote:
    Originally posted by QuebecRef87
    Quote:
    Originally posted by Snake~eyes
    Quote:
    Originally posted by TriggerMN
    What's a 30 second violation? Are you using a shot clock in 7-grade games, up there, eh?
    lol I think he meant after 30 seconds there was a violation, but I could be wrong.
    No, I really meant shot clock violation. Sorry for the misunderstanding. In French we say "30 seconds violation" (litterally translated). Or maybe it's just a matter of terminology, because we are using FIBA rules up here (moving to NCAA next year I think).
    For the second time in a week, someone misspelled FEEBLE.
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