Stop Game for Injury?

[johnnyrao]

Boys V game last night. Home is down by 4 with about 1 minute left. I am C. A1 takes a shot and misses. Aw rebounds and as he is prepping to take a short shot I see A3 direclty under the basket, on his stomach and holding his head and face (not moving much). I blew the whistle as A2 was beginning to shoot but had not released the ball. A3 was okay after a few minutes (took a hit to the face) but he went out because Coach A came on the floor. Since A2 had not released the ball we gave A the ball inbounds. Neither coach had any complaint about it.

Would you stop the game at this point or wait until A2 shoot since A is down by 4? My opinion was that A3 was in a very vulnerable position especially if the shot is missed and a big rebound scramble ensues. Also, he was holding his face so i didn't know exactly what was wrong. Also, did we administer it correctly in giving the ball back to A?

[Mark Dexter]

Varsity - if possible, wait until the shot is over (especially if A2 is in a shooting motion).

That said, if there's ANY doubt in your mind, stop the game immediately. In the paint, holding his head and face, motionless would tend to indicate a more serious injury - something which was realized when he was treated for several minutes.

Sounds like a good call and your part, and a good catch to give the ball back to A.

[mick]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
Would you stop the game at this point or wait until A2 shoot since A is down by 4? My opinion was that A3 was in a very vulnerable position especially if the shot is missed and a big rebound scramble ensues. Also, he was holding his face so i didn't know exactly what was wrong. Also, did we administer it correctly in giving the ball back to A?

johnnyrao,
In your sitch, I think you acted properly.
The score is not pertinent when injurious potential is imminent.
mick

[som44]

Safety Fist--good call.

I had one the other night in a Boys varsity game. As i was heading down court I noticed out of the corner of my eye a small child (3-4 year old) on the court. I immediately stoped the game much to a mothers relief.

[blindzebra]

The lane area is dangerous not only to the player already down, but to any players that may land on that player.

My rule of thumb is if it is in the lane or I see the player land and it is a head, neck, or back landing I'm hitting the whistle.

Absolutely, the correct call.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by johnnyrao

Would you stop the game at this point or wait until A2 shoot since A is down by 4?

It's better to stop it asap, ESPECIALLY when the player that's almost shooting is from the same team as the player that's down. When they are from opposing teams, there's always the suspicion of faking.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker

It's better to stop it asap, ESPECIALLY when the player that's almost shooting is from the same team as the player that's down. When they are from opposing teams, there's always the suspicion of faking.

Aha! Aha !!!
...The perfect time for a floppin' "T".
mick

[totalnewbie]

We got our varsity boys coaches together with representatives from the official's association and they all unanimously agreed that if a player is down on the ground and seems to be hurt, blow the whistle and stop the play. Apparently our representitive to the coaches then said "I'll remind you guys that you said that when your team is down by one with 8 seconds left and yoru team is on the break when an opponent goes down." The varsity officials all said, "we wont like it, but it is the right thing to do."

That has made it real easy for me on two occasions when that has happened. Once in a boys JV on an opponent's fast break and once in a girls JV on an opponent's steal. Luckily, both times the injuries were legit and not faking and both times the kid went to the floor--not just lagging behind and limping.

When each coach got pissed that I stopped breaks with my time I said "coach, talk to your varisity coach; in a meeting they all agreed I have to stop play." That pretty much ended the complaining right away.

Clark

[Nevadaref]

Clark,
I'm rather unhappy to hear this. The coaches don't get to decide how to the game should be called. There is a specific rule for this in the book and it should be followed. The judgment of the official is a very necessary component of the game. While I agree that we should always err on the side of safety, if there truly is no real risk to the player at that time, the game should not be stopped without the conditions of the rule being met.

I'm emailing the NIAA asst. director about this.

5-8-2
NOTE: When a player is injured as in Art. 2(a), the official may suspend play after the ball is dead or is in control of the injured player's team or when the opponents complete a play. A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position. When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately suspend play.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Clark,
I'm rather unhappy to hear this. The coaches don't get to decide how to the game should be called. There is a specific rule for this in the book and it should be followed. The judgment of the official is a very necessary component of the game. While I agree that we should always err on the side of safety, if there truly is no real risk to the player at that time, the game should not be stopped without the conditions of the rule being met.

Wow, Nevada. I think you're over-reacting here. The judgment of the refs is still part of the picture, but it now includes the foundational knowledge that coaches want the play stopped sooner, even if it means some sacrifice on their part. All it does is empower the ref to more easily judge that the game should be stopped. It gives the ref a better set of choices. It certainly doesn't go against the rule!

[totalnewbie]

Nevada-

I wasnt at the meeting. This is my understanding of a meeting between our official's rep and the varsity coaches mostly to discuss the longevity of 3 person mechanics for varsity (there is talk of going back to 2 and we dont want to) and to discuss a new evaluation system for officials that includes coach input following games. One thing that was discussed was the "injured player on ground" situation. I guess in my earlier post I made it seem like the "permission" of the coaches was sought. That probably wasnt the best way to put it, as I understand it. I think it was more of a "lets all get on the same page on this," type thing. We were told at an early meeting that "the varsity coaches all agree with us that player safety is paramount and that if lower level coaches give you grief tell them to go talk to the varsity coaches." I didnt in any way take this to mean that my judgment was affected by coach input. Merely that we had crossed our "t"s and dotted our "i" to help the younger officials at lower levels when we DO stop play.

This advice was accompanied by the instruction that if a player is down and apparently injured, we are to stop play in (essentially) all circumstances.

If my prior explanation caused a misunderstanding I appologize. I know the stoppage rule and my association knows the stoppage rule you quoted. Rainmaker, I agree with your comments above and I think that more accurately represents what I was trying to explain. Sorry if I didnt do that well

Clark

[Edited by totalnewbie on Jan 31st, 2005 at 02:05 AM]

[Nevadaref]

Juulie,
I repectfully have to believe that I have every right to flip out a little on this one. Afterall, this is MY state (Clark lives in Vegas.) and this type of decision may well come up in a game of mine.

The Vegas coaches are saying that if A1 goes down after attempting a driving lay-up and remains injured on the floor with no other player near him, while B1 grabs the rebound and starts a 2 on 1 fast break with B2 against only A2 back on D, then they want the game stopped right then.

That is not what the rule says. This could cause a serious problem at the state tournament (who knows if I will even be there?), and should therefore be addressed by the state office before any problem arises. I truly believe that the rule is being misapplied here.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by totalnewbie
if a player is down and apparently injured, we are to stop play in (essentially) all circumstances.

The rule states:
When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately suspend play.

totalnewbbie...you are saying "we ARE to stop play in All circumstatnes.

I have to agree with Nevadaref...this sounds like it takes away from the officials judgement as to weather or not a suspension in play is neccessary.

[totalnewbie]

No, not at all. We were told if we believed that it was a fake or a ploy to get a free timeout or some other instance then dont stop it. But if kid is on ground in apparent pain they want stoppage of play if there is no reason to question legitimacy.

Now, contrast this to just an injured player situation. The "stop play" direction we were given is only for people in pain down on the floor. Not limping or standing and griping or yelling, or kneeling. Just for laying down on floor in pain, as in "serious injury."

I'm just telling what I was told by my supervisors: if a person is down on the floor in pain (and not apparetnly faking) stop play.

Clark

[Edited by totalnewbie on Jan 31st, 2005 at 02:49 AM]

[totalnewbie]

By the way, this instruciton about stopping play was given in the "new refs" meeting (from new to 2 years reffing) and NOT given at the general meeting. So dont worry about it affecting varsity level officials, certainly not varsity level playoff officials.

At our meetings we do things in two stages, first the general meeting and then we break into groups.

The part where they mentioned they got the varsity refs on the same page with us on injury stoppages was at the general meeting. The direct instruction (by a senior association member) about stopping play in nearly every instance when a person is on the floor occurred in response to a discussion about handling injury situations in the "new ref" meeting.

To me, I understand why in that situation you would instruct new refs to err on the side of stopping play.

Clark

[Edited by totalnewbie on Jan 31st, 2005 at 02:53 AM]