Coach Belligerent in Coach's Meeting

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Those questions surely back the coach into a corner - THERE IS ONLY ONE ALLOWABLE ANSWER.

So, there is no reason to ask the question UNLESS you are planning to hold him to his answer. "Coach you said you would display good sportsmanship."

But don't we already hold the coach accountable for good sportsmanship? It is obvious that we expect good sportsmanship from the coach and players. We penalize for bad sportsmanship independent of the questions and independent of the answer. The questions are meaningless and hence the answers are meaninless too.

So, the requirement to ask the questions is really kind of stupid too. I'm sorry, meaningless, not stupid. But in light of that, the coach's answers should be taken for what they probably were... humor. I don't think any official should be prying the approved answer out of a coach by asking the same question three times. That is definitely demeaning, belittling, and confrontational. It is demanding the coach to be subservient. That is wrong.

"And here are our usual, required questions...1, 2, 3. Okay let's have a great game. Good Luck to you both." If I was required to ask such questions I would not even wait for the answers - just move on.

$0.25

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Those questions surely back the coach into a corner - THERE IS ONLY ONE ALLOWABLE ANSWER.

So, there is no reason to ask the question UNLESS you are planning to hold him to his answer. "Coach you said you would display good sportsmanship."

This is exactly the point. To hold him accountable later, if necessary.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Those questions surely back the coach into a corner - THERE IS ONLY ONE ALLOWABLE ANSWER.

So, there is no reason to ask the question UNLESS you are planning to hold him to his answer. "Coach you said you would display good sportsmanship."

But don't we already hold the coach accountable for good sportsmanship? It is obvious that we expect good sportsmanship from the coach and players. We penalize for bad sportsmanship independent of the questions and independent of the answer. The questions are meaningless and hence the answers are meaninless too.

So, the requirement to ask the questions is really kind of stupid too. I'm sorry, meaningless, not stupid. But in light of that, the coach's answers should be taken for what they probably were... humor. I don't think any official should be prying the approved answer out of a coach by asking the same question three times. That is definitely demeaning, belittling, and confrontational. It is demanding the coach to be subservient. That is wrong.

"And here are our usual, required questions...1, 2, 3. Okay let's have a great game. Good Luck to you both." If I was required to ask such questions I would not even wait for the answers - just move on.

$0.25

Tony, if the state *requires* a yes answer to these questions before the game is started (which serve as a reminder, at least) then why is restating the question in search of the *required* answer belittling? How much more belittling would it have been if the referee simply said "Fine. Game over, final score 2-0 by forfeit."???

And it is belittling, IMO, for the coach to use this *required* procedure as a means to take a shot at the referee.

[ReadyToRef]

Thank you for all of your comments and replies. I have been at work and haven't been able to address your concerns. I will try to do that now.

1. Everybody has had problems with this coach. He is constantly on the refs. To call him a hooligan would be an insult to the hooligans in the world.

2. We are required to ask these questions or some very similar variation of them.

3. The ADs of the middle schools want their games to resemble the varsity games as much as possible so they require the questions. If you donÂ’t ask the questions, then some believe you canÂ’t T the coach for unsportsmanlike behavior.

4. The coaches at this level should be just as professional as the ones at the high school because they are all certified teachers.

5. We have been asking these questions for at least 3 and possibly 4 years. Every coach knows they are coming. When the R walks over at the 3 minute mark, both coaches usually stand up and walk out to meet him. Everyone knows it is part of the ritual.

6. In the 100s of games IÂ’ve been the R for, I have never had a smart-aleck remark. Of the 1000s done by my peers and friends, this is the only problem I have heard about.

7. Every coach I’ve ever asked always answers with a yes. The only exception is at a BV site where I’ve reffed several times. The coach there has a short fuse but he knows this. When he is asked if he’ll display good sportsmanship, he always smiles and says “I’ll try”.

Once again, I thank you for all of your comments and advice.

[Camron Rust]

In Oregon, we are required to ask these questions or something like them:

1. Coach, are your players properly equipped...shirts in, no jewelry, etc?
   
2. Will your team display good sportsmanship
   

No matter their answer (yes or no), we are to say thank you and move on.

Everyone either says yes or "if you see otherwise, let me know because I won't tolerate it".

I suppose the delivery, if not done in the right way (too harshly or accusingly), could elicit an unfavorable response in some cases.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
5. We have been asking these questions for at least 3 and possibly 4 years. Every coach knows they are coming. When the R walks over at the 3 minute mark, both coaches usually stand up and walk out to meet him. Everyone knows it is part of the ritual.

What about the new coaches? I work primarily HS games and you would be surprised by the amount of coaches that are totally unaware of common procedures. Especially those coaches that are new at the varsity level. Just because a procedure is in place does not mean every coach is aware or used to it. It is also possible that other officials are not asking these questions as it is required and this coach is responding the way he did because he is not commonly asked.

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
6. In the 100s of games IÂ’ve been the R for, I have never had a smart-aleck remark. Of the 1000s done by my peers and friends, this is the only problem I have heard about.

That is not a justification for the policy. All it takes is one situation or the right situation and things can change drastically. Look at what happen in the NBA this year for example. The current procedures we have about sportsmanship and where we conduct that meeting all started from one reported event between an official and a player. Now because of this reported incident coaches have to be involved in the pregame meeting and a sportsmanship statement has to be made by the Referee (the same procedure filtered to all sports before the NF changed the rules). And not all officials did everything that was "required" or followed the procedure to the letter. So when I would come around and do what was required, there were many coaches unaware of what they were "required" to do.

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
7. Every coach I’ve ever asked always answers with a yes. The only exception is at a BV site where I’ve reffed several times. The coach there has a short fuse but he knows this. When he is asked if he’ll display good sportsmanship, he always smiles and says “I’ll try”.

If I have learned anything in all my sports officiating career, it is not the common situation or play that gets us in trouble. It is the unusual play or situation that draws all the attention.

Peace

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by rainmaker

This is exactly the point. To hold him accountable later, if necessary.

I don't ask those questions during my coaches meeting... BUT I STILL HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. So what really is the purpose of the questions?

If someone really thinks there is some validity to the questions and his answers then why don't we go a step further and add some more physical validity by forcing him (you force him to give the approved answer) to sign a contract. No contract, no coaching.

Then when his sportsmanship lapses (judged by us, the officials), we can shake the signed contract in front of his face, in front of the entire crowd. "Coach you're not living up to your end of the contract; I'm going to have to T you."

I'm being facetious of course. I don't see the validity of asking the questions. And Dan I do feel it is belittling, demeaning, and confrontational to force a person into a subservient position where they must physically give a particular, prescribed answer. Not that I don't think the chain of command isn't correct. It is just not good personal/social skills. You don't win friends and influence people by forcing others.

[mick]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

I don't ask those questions during my coaches meeting... BUT I STILL HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. So what really is the purpose of the questions?

Good call, DownTownTonyBrown.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

I don't ask those questions during my coaches meeting... BUT I STILL HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. So what really is the purpose of the questions?

Tony, I couldn't care less about the questions and I'm not on any state or league boards that force this stuff. But I also don't think it's any big deal one way or the other. If this is how they want to do it, I'll comply. If the coaches don't like it that way, they can work on changing the rule. But they can't mouth off to me. They've gotta submit just like I have to.

[regs12]

I agree leave it up the school administration to weed out the jerks.

[gsf23]

[i]Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

If someone really thinks there is some validity to the questions and his answers then why don't we go a step further and add some more physical validity by forcing him (you force him to give the approved answer) to sign a contract. No contract, no coaching.
[/B]

I believe they do something like this in Colorado. I was teaching there about four years ago, not coaching by doing the clock for Bball games. Before every game JV and Varsity, the coaches had to sign some kind of sportsmanship card. I don't know what the penalty was if a coach refused to sign, probably foreit of the game and I don't know if they still do it. Maybe some Colorado refs can help out here..

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
And Dan I do feel it is belittling, demeaning, and confrontational to force a person into a subservient position where they must physically give a particular, prescribed answer. Not that I don't think the chain of command isn't correct. It is just not good personal/social skills. You don't win friends and influence people by forcing others.

Then you lead a very sheltered life my friend.

"Have you packed these bags yourself and have they been in your control since then?"

"How are you this evening sir?"

"Do you know why I pulled you over this evening sir?"

"How do you plead?"

"Do you take this woman..."

"Does this dress make me look fat?"

"Care to see our wine list?"

"Will you display good sportsmanship throughout the entire game?"

Only an idiot or a sociopath would not understand these questions, among others, require an extremely limited set of answers. With no intent to "belittle".

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
"Do you know why I pulled you over this evening sir?"

Only an idiot or a sociopath would not understand these questions, among others, require an extremely limited set of answers. With no intent to "belittle".

Dang it, Sparky!
I got this one wrong.
I thought speeding, but it was a $50.00 seat belt.
mick

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
If someone really thinks there is some validity to the questions and his answers then why don't we go a step further and add some more physical validity by forcing him (you force him to give the approved answer) to sign a contract. No contract, no coaching.

Then when his sportsmanship lapses (judged by us, the officials), we can shake the signed contract in front of his face, in front of the entire crowd. "Coach you're not living up to your end of the contract; I'm going to have to T you."

Hey, I kind of like that idea....

Good one Tony!!!!

[Forksref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Juulie,

I am not saying the coach was justified with his actions. But the nature of the questions in my opinion opens up this type of confrontation. Especially at the JH or middle school levels. It is not like you get the most mature coaches at that level.

Peace

JR is right. You can cause fewer problems by different wording and still get the same point across. "Don't forget about sportsmanship and have fun out there!"

If the coach is going to be a jerk, we will handle it during the game. No sense "egging" him on before the game starts. If he responded like he did, I'd just smile and end the pre-game conference and remember to file that comment for later reference.