Taking the ball out of bounds after a basket

[Lew Riley]

I coach a couple of girls basketball teams, and in our leagues, unfortunately the full-court press may be used the entire game. (I say "unfortunately" because full-court presses aren't used the entire game in college and pro games--at least ones I've seen--so as far as I'm concerned full-game full-court pressing keeps kids from learning how to play the game "normally.")

In any case, to circumvent the full-court press, I seem to recall an official telling me that after a team makes a basket (and even after a timeout after a team makes a basket), the scored-upon team can post two, three, even four of its team members "behind the baseline" (out of bounds in other words)--as long as the team puts the ball in play within five seconds.

I've seen two players out-of-bounds after a basket is made but never more than this number. I'm pretty sure the rule is standard; can anyone help me with this rule--and in doing so, perhaps restore a little sanity to our kids' basketball games?

[JRutledge]

Coach,

I could be wrong here, but I am not aware of any restriction that does not allow more than 2 players to be out of bounds during this type of throw-in. This legal in my book. You are right that you really do not see more than two players typically, but that does not mean it is illegal because you do not see it.

Peace

[Lew Riley]

Thank you! I liked Bill Maher's quote, too....

[TheRefinator]

I have seen three players out of bounds in this situation before. The opposing coach is screaming for a violation, but of course there is none.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Lew Riley
I coach a couple of girls basketball teams, and in our leagues, unfortunately the full-court press may be used the entire game. (I say "unfortunately" because full-court presses aren't used the entire game in college and pro games--at least ones I've seen--so as far as I'm concerned full-game full-court pressing keeps kids from learning how to play the game "normally.")

In any case, to circumvent the full-court press, I seem to recall an official telling me that after a team makes a basket (and even after a timeout after a team makes a basket), the scored-upon team can post two, three, even four of its team members "behind the baseline" (out of bounds in other words)--as long as the team puts the ball in play within five seconds.

I've seen two players out-of-bounds after a basket is made but never more than this number. I'm pretty sure the rule is standard; can anyone help me with this rule--and in doing so, perhaps restore a little sanity to our kids' basketball games?

First, teams in college and pros can press for the entire game if they choose, so i'm not sure that the comparison holds.

Also, it is in the players best interest to have to play against the press. It may not always be fun if you are not as talented as the other team, but it still makes your players better.

We have youth leagues and even middle schools that do not allow pressing at all or until the 4th quarter. Kids get cut their first day of try outs in high school because they have played guard for 4 years and they can't bring up the ball under pressure.

On a less serious note, how would having 3 or 4 players OOB on a throw in help beat the press? If it's 4 OOB you double up on the 5.th kid and put 1 kid at half court and 1 each on the sides at the FT line extended. Even if it causes confusion once, you just zone press and trap after they throw it in.

[Hotlink501]

Correct, no restriction on number of players oob, main concern is 5 seconds to inbound. There is no restrictions in NFHS on presses, maybe in some city leagues or rec leagues, but remember the old saying, "live by the press, die by the press".

[Lew Riley]

To Hotlink 501: Thanks for the info. I appreciate your input very much; I play tonight at 7 p.m., and I was wasting my time trying to find the answer to the question until I found this terrific site with its helpful members.

To BlindZebra: I realize that in women's basketball, the full-court press is applied, but rarely if ever the entire game. If a team tried to full-court-press another team in college or pros the entire game, they would very probably give up lots of points doing so because college and pro women (and men) can easily beat the press because they have point guards who can dribble and pass expertly.

But they do use the full-court-press in girls high school basketball out where I live (Orange County, California). In fact, I recently saw a game where one varsity team was leading another by 40 points in the last period and they were still full-court-pressing. To me, the winning coach was practicing poor sportmanship. He and his team were basically rubbing it in the face of the inferior squad, but I'm a believer in "What goes around comes around."

As for why I would put multiple players out of bounds. I would do so briefly, probably two or three, so the defense wouldn't know who was going to get the ball. In fact, I have a couple of plays based on having two or three girls out of bounds. If another team is going to throw a full-court press on me in a 5th/6th girls game and I don't have the best dribblers in the world, I believe it's incumbent upon me to come up with creative ways to beat the press--as long as I can get the ball in within five seconds.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Lew Riley
To Hotlink 501: Thanks for the info. I appreciate your input very much; I play tonight at 7 p.m., and I was wasting my time trying to find the answer to the question until I found this terrific site with its helpful members.

To BlindZebra: I realize that in women's basketball, the full-court press is applied, but rarely if ever the entire game. If a team tried to full-court-press another team in college or pros the entire game, they would very probably give up lots of points doing so because college and pro women (and men) can easily beat the press because they have point guards who can dribble and pass expertly.

But they do use the full-court-press in girls high school basketball out where I live (Orange County, California). In fact, I recently saw a game where one varsity team was leading another by 40 points in the last period and they were still full-court-pressing. To me, the winning coach was practicing poor sportmanship. He and his team were basically rubbing it in the face of the inferior squad, but I'm a believer in "What goes around comes around."

As for why I would put multiple players out of bounds. I would do so briefly, probably two or three, so the defense wouldn't know who was going to get the ball. In fact, I have a couple of plays based on having two or three girls out of bounds. If another team is going to throw a full-court press on me in a 5th/6th girls game and I don't have the best dribblers in the world, I believe it's incumbent upon me to come up with creative ways to beat the press--as long as I can get the ball in within five seconds.

It's not hard, it's basketball 101. Big player in the middle of the court below center jump circle. Inbound pass to wing, pass to big player and both passers fill lanes down the sides and press is broken.

You see, Bobby Knight was wrong, officials do know something about coaching basketball.

[Lew Riley]

Hey thanks, BZ.... I've been scouring the Internet for plays to beat full-court press, and virtually all involve screens and players doing 360's and the like. I will try yours; my girls aren't particularly switft but I have several tall ones. I'll let you know. Was it also Bobby K. who said, "A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something"?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Lew Riley
Hey thanks, BZ.... I've been scouring the Internet for plays to beat full-court press, and virtually all involve screens and players doing 360's and the like. I will try yours; my girls aren't particularly switft but I have several tall ones. I'll let you know. Was it also Bobby K. who said, "A hunch is creativity trying to tell you something"?

Hey, Lew, I gotta ask, did you attend Earlham College in the 70's?

How to break the press: work on the baseball pass. And be sure your player who does the throw doesn't stand behind the basket!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BushRef

I'm not really sure if he said that, but I do know that in an interview with Connie Chung, Bobby Knight said, "If rape is inevitable, you may as well sit back and enjoy it."

If you feel that Bobby Knight is the master of all wisdom, I'd be very glad to put you into his category!

[Lew Riley]

Hey Rainmaker and BushRef,

Thanks for your comments. Interestingly, one of my tall girls could well be the next Jennie Finch--well in several years. She is a world-class softball pitcher (throws a 53-mile-an-hour pitch) and led Yorba Linda to a second-place finish in the ASA nationals in Missouri last year. She's just taken up hoops however--but she's already shown she's got game. She would certainly be the one to throw the full-court pass.

Also, I believe I know why you asked about Earlham. If you ever want to see what the world knows about you, put your name in quotes and put it in Yahoo or Google's search engine. When I do that, invariably a professor Lew Riley shows up from Earlham. And he's not the only professor with my name. And, wouldn't you know, I'm a writing instructor. I used to teach in classrooms, but now teach online for the top online institution. What a gig!

I had forgotten all about the Bobby Knight/Connie Choung interview, during which Knight uttered those famous--infamous words. I have even forgotten what expression crossed Connie's face when he said those words!

Finally, since you folks have been so helpful--I used Blind Zebra's full-court-press beater Sunday night--does anyone know of a relatively easy full-court-press to throw on the enemy? Yes, I'm not a fan of the full-court-press the entire game, but I'm certainly not averse to it late in the game when the score is close.

Thanks again for all your help--and all you do!

By the way, out here youth basketball refs get $20 per game. Is tha about average?

[Adam]

Originally posted by rainmaker

If you feel that Bobby Knight is the master of all wisdom, I'd be very glad to put you into his category!

Bobby's not the only one who has used this famously stupid joke. Ann Richards won the governorship of Texas when the incumbant, an incredibly thick-skulled individual, responded to a reporter's query about the weather with, "The weather is like rape, it's inevitable so you might as well sit back and enjoy it." Knight's utterance was just as stupid, and neither is likely all that original. I've found some of Knight's cracks to be funny, but that can never balance the crap he's pulled like that.

[Lew Riley]

For a second, I inferred that George W. Bush had made that statement and wondered why he had never been excoriated for doing so--but upon further reflection, I realize that he was not the incumbent when he ran against Ann Richards.

By the way, your "signature: mention of a redundancy reminded me of a couple of oxymorons you might like:

Microsoft Works

Jumbo Shrimp

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Lew Riley
Also, I believe I know why you asked about Earlham. If you ever want to see what the world knows about you, put your name in quotes and put it in Yahoo or Google's search engine. When I do that, invariably a professor Lew Riley shows up from Earlham. And he's not the only professor with my name. And, wouldn't you know, I'm a writing instructor. I used to teach in classrooms, but now teach online for the top online institution. What a gig!

Hi, Lew. You're right about Google -- what an interesting exercise!! I attended Earlham with one or another of the Lew Rileys with whom you share a name.

One person perhaps you're familiar with that I've lost track of is I. M. Shirley Wright. Do you know what she's up to since she was "let go" from Car Talk?!?