Team Fouls

[johnnyrao]

Can I tell the timer during pre-game not to post team fouls on the scoreboard? I did a JV game the other night and in the 2nd half the home team had 8 team fouls and the visitors had zero. Now, as exepected, the home team coach is riding us hard and letting us know what the scoreboard is saying (yes, she did eventually get a T for this and a lot more). My mindset all this time is 1) are we really missing something from the visitors here? 2) are we seeing fouls from home that aren't really there? We talked it through after the game and decided a few things. First, Home could have had MANY more fouls but since they were down by 20+ we actually let a few go. Second, since they were down by so many their offense consisted of one pass and a three-pointer, usually rebounded by the Visitors, so there were few/no V fouls. We felt we were good in the way we called it but obviously, because of the scoreboard, many in the gym thought we were idiots.

If I can't tell the timer not to track fouls on the board, then do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back?

[zebraman]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
Can I tell the timer during pre-game not to post team fouls on the scoreboard? I did a JV game the other night and in the 2nd half the home team had 8 team fouls and the visitors had zero. Now, as exepected, the home team coach is riding us hard and letting us know what the scoreboard is saying (yes, she did eventually get a T for this and a lot more). My mindset all this time is 1) are we really missing something from the visitors here? 2) are we seeing fouls from home that aren't really there? We talked it through after the game and decided a few things. First, Home could have had MANY more fouls but since they were down by 20+ we actually let a few go. Second, since they were down by so many their offense consisted of one pass and a three-pointer, usually rebounded by the Visitors, so there were few/no V fouls. We felt we were good in the way we called it but obviously, because of the scoreboard, many in the gym thought we were idiots.

If I can't tell the timer not to track fouls on the board, then do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back?

You don't tell the scorer to not show team fouls. That's part of his/her job. In that case, you don't "give" (as in invent) a foul on one team, but you can just try to focus harder to make sure you don't miss any and make things worse.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
Can I tell the timer during pre-game not to post team fouls on the scoreboard? I did a JV game the other night and in the 2nd half the home team had 8 team fouls and the visitors had zero. Now, as exepected, the home team coach is riding us hard and letting us know what the scoreboard is saying (yes, she did eventually get a T for this and a lot more). My mindset all this time is 1) are we really missing something from the visitors here? 2) are we seeing fouls from home that aren't really there? We talked it through after the game and decided a few things. First, Home could have had MANY more fouls but since they were down by 20+ we actually let a few go. Second, since they were down by so many their offense consisted of one pass and a three-pointer, usually rebounded by the Visitors, so there were few/no V fouls. We felt we were good in the way we called it but obviously, because of the scoreboard, many in the gym thought we were idiots.

If I can't tell the timer not to track fouls on the board, then do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back?

You can't make up fouls by the team that doesn't have any. You can carefully make sure that they don't gain ANY advantage at all by any illegal contact. It's very possible, though, that they are just a lot better team, and this coach hasn't yet learned how to teach her girls to play that well.

You can also let a lot go by the losing team if "they don't gain any advantage from it."

The most important part (as I am still learning daily) is to call your own game, and don't worry too much about the coach's complaints. Until they earn themselves a T. Then whack! and move on. Now someone remind me of that on Monday when I have -ugh!- Parkrose girls.

[BktBallRef]

Whether the fouls are on the board or not, the coach will know how many fouls there are.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
Can I tell the timer during pre-game not to post team fouls on the scoreboard? I did a JV game the other night and in the 2nd half the home team had 8 team fouls and the visitors had zero. Now, as exepected, the home team coach is riding us hard and letting us know what the scoreboard is saying (yes, she did eventually get a T for this and a lot more). My mindset all this time is 1) are we really missing something from the visitors here? 2) are we seeing fouls from home that aren't really there? We talked it through after the game and decided a few things. First, Home could have had MANY more fouls but since they were down by 20+ we actually let a few go. Second, since they were down by so many their offense consisted of one pass and a three-pointer, usually rebounded by the Visitors, so there were few/no V fouls. We felt we were good in the way we called it but obviously, because of the scoreboard, many in the gym thought we were idiots.

If I can't tell the timer not to track fouls on the board, then do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back?

I hope I never let a coach influence how a JV game is handled in terms of keeping score, etc...

Sounds like you did fine talking about the sitch: you didn't make anything up and I have no problem with letting a couple of fouls go on the fouling team.

[JRutledge]

One aspect of our jobs is to realize what is happening in the game. If one team is playing a zone and another team is putting on a full court press, chances are the team with the full court press is going to have more fouls. Not always, but more than likely. If one team is driving to the basket and another team is settling for jump shots or three pointers, chances are the team going to the basket is going to probably get fouled more than the team just shooting from the outside. If the foul count is 7 to 1 and the coach complains, just tell him for his team to stop fouling. It is not your job to call the game so the fouls are even. There are no rules that allow this, nor are there any officials worth their salt that want to do that. We are not perfect and we never will be. But if the foul count is out of whack like that, just focus more and make sure you are calling fouls on the team that has not fouled when they occur. If they are not fouling, try to have the common sense to understand why they are not fouling (like settling for jump shots as I stated).

Last night in my game the fouls were pretty even most of the game and the coaches still complained. The foul count is not going to make you life easier just because everything is even. If they do not complain about fouls, they will complain about violations or say things like, "well the other team was doing that to us first." You will never be right with a coach or the fans. Just do your job and your life will go much smoother.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
then do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back?

You're kidding, right? Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you just "give" some points to the trailing team "to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back"?

Here's an even better idea - just flip a coin before the game to see who wins and say they won by one point in overtime, then you don't even have to play the game. I bet the scoreboard would look really good that way.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but it just burns me when officials think part of their job is:

1) to see that the fouls come out somewhat even
2) to call the game based on avoiding comments from coaches
3) to not realize that the team that plays the best is supposed to win

[johnnyrao]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

You're kidding, right? Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you just "give" some points to the trailing team "to make the scoreboard look a little better and get folks off your back"?

Here's an even better idea - just flip a coin before the game to see who wins and say they won by one point in overtime, then you don't even have to play the game. I bet the scoreboard would look really good that way.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but it just burns me when officials think part of their job is:

1) to see that the fouls come out somewhat even
2) to call the game based on avoiding comments from coaches
3) to not realize that the team that plays the best is supposed to win

Mark,

I wasn't kidding in my question. I don't do it but I though I would ask. Since I am still relatively new to reffing I am still learning. So in answer to your three comments above:

1) I agree but I have seen refs consider this and sometimes the thought comes to mind
2) I actually could care less what the coaches think. I try and do my best.
3) Concur with #3 completely. I just wish we could teach coaches this sometimes.

[Mark Dexter]

The coaches are going to know how many fouls each team has whether it's on the scoreboard or not.

That said, the timer is an official under your control. I wouldn't recommend it, but you could have them not put up team fouls. It's helpful for the fans (and the refs) to have, though.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by johnnyrao
do any of you "give" fouls to the visitors to make the scoreboard look a little better?

As Mark P pointed out, you should not do that. However, I had a partner two seasons ago in a college game who did exactly that. And he wasn't even subtle about it. The foul count was 8-2 with about 4 minutes left in the first half -- in the Home team's favor. The visiting coach got in his ear (How can they only have 2 fouls in 12 minutes?!?!).

Next time the visitors had the ball, this one partner called 4 handchecks in about 20 seconds, making the foul count 8-6, ensuring that both teams were in the bonus. Remember this is the first half, so all these fouls are right in front of the home team's bench. Since we were still sending the calling official opposite the table, I was stuck as the C right in front of the home coach. Oh what fun. . .

It would've been laughable if it hadn't been so embarassing. That official received the lowest rating that I've ever given a fellow official.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Next time the visitors had the ball, this one partner called 4 handchecks in about 20 seconds, making the foul count 8-6, ensuring that both teams were in the bonus. Remember this is the first half, so all these fouls are right in front of the home team's bench. Since we were still sending the calling official opposite the table, I was stuck as the C right in front of the home coach. Oh what fun. . .

Does he do it differently now that he's tableside after every call? Is he still doing college?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Does he do it differently now that he's tableside after every call? Is he still doing college?

I think he still works college ball, but I don't know if he still uses that "technique". I haven't worked with him since that game, and in fact, that's the only time we've worked together.