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Old Thu Dec 16, 2004, 11:35pm
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Actually the first in two seasons, but I got one tonight.

Yapping from the first call of the game, his team is winning easily, but he's going and most of it is directed at my partner.

Mid first quarter, his kid tries to split defenders at the FT line and my partner at L, calls a walk.

He's up slapping his arm saying, "I heard it all the way over here." The next trip by his bench I say, "The hit was on the hand on the ball coach, it's nothing." He replies with, "Yes it is." I leave it alone.

Mid second quarter and his big kid goes base line and the defender cuts him off and there is a bump, but his kid reacted to it and turned away, this started in my primary, but my partner, at lead again, came ball side and had nothing. The coach is up yelling for the foul, the defender makes a swipe at the ball and makes contact and my partner calls the foul.

The coach say, "It's about time." I'm at the lower end of the center jump circle as my partner is moving to report. I tell the coach, that's enough and give him the stop sign. He stays there gesturing at my partner as my partner reports the foul and says, " I should not have to ask for it." I waited for my partner to finish his report and than I whacked the coach.

We shoot the FTs and he calls a timeout. He waives me over and asks why he got the T. I said, "I told you I'd heard enough and you kept going. He comes back with, "You told me to shut up and sit down and I did." I said, "Coach we both know I never said for you to shut up and sit down, I gave you the stop sign and you ran it with another comment."

The best part was at the half my partner said that I should have just gave him the stop sign and let it go. I was floored, I was looking out for the crew, and the game went much better in the second half, too.

Just needed to vent, I guess that is what I get for picking up a couple of 8th grade tournament games from a buddy at the last minute.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2004, 11:52pm
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Good job man,

way to stick to your warning, very few officials I've seen do that.

As soon as I put up the stop sign I expect the coach to sit down and shut up, but if he says another word, it's time to whack him. Your partner should take another look at his views on handling coaches.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 01:06am
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Funny you should mention whacking a coach for the crew...

A couple nights ago me and a couple of JC officials did a H.S. boys Varsity game. 3-Whistle.
Coach A was winning by 25 points with 1 minute to go in the first half. (He had alread beaten this team soundly earlier in the year...he ended up winning our game by 40 pts.)
Anyway, Coach A...whom I have a very good working relationship with...went a little crazy. He thought a couple fouls didn't go his way. His team had 10 fouls...the other team had 5. He was probably right.
I was the R this night. My partner, lets say U1, had a ball go OOB in front of him on the endline. I was trail and saw it pretty good. The ball went off B1 but my partner gave it back to Team B. 1 minute to go, in a 25 point blow out, I wasn't running in and changing anything.
Besides, he didn't look to me for help.
Coach A went nuts. He asked, "What is going on here?" and requested a TO. My other partner, U2 who was C tableside, granted the TO.
Coach A came out on the court for the 30 second TO and spent the most of the time staring at U1. (I guess for the missed OOB call)
U1 later said he almost whacked him for the stare down but decided not to make eye contact with the coach and let it go.
Coach A called me over at the end of his TO to tell me that my partner probably made that bad call because he had questioned him about another call. I said, "C'mon coach, you know that's not the case...we probably just missed it...c'mon, your up by 25...let's get to half-time."
After the TO, the ball was put into play by U2 in front of coach A's bench. The ball was inbounded and was being passed around the perimeter...all of a sudden I hear a "tweet" and U2 is giving coach A a T.
We get together at the center circle and U1 says he going opposite table, U2 says he will go tableside, and I administered the free throws.
Before I went to administer the FT's...coach A called me over again. He said, "Dan, all I said was U2 is pissing me off and he gives me a T for that?" I was there only briefly and didn't say much of anything...just that we were shooting 2. I really couldn't believe this was happening...I figured the coach was just showing off for his wife, who was the scorekeeper, or something like that.
Anyway, we got out of the half.
My partner, U2, said he T'd the coach for the crew...he was showing U1 up with the stare down and didn't like his "pissing him off" comment.
Fair enough...I told him at half-time that was alright with me...and that now he will have to be "seat-belted" for the second half. We still couldn't believe he was freaking out over a couple calls in a blowout.
At the start of the 2nd half I went over and told coach A that he knows the rule...he will be seatbelted for the 2nd half. He starts in again, "So that's all you guys could talk about at halftime...that I'll be seatbelted?...well I don't care...I'm not sitting...I don't care...I'll miss the next game...I just don't care!!"
Now I got a little more personal...I said, "C'mon Scott, you know we'll have to get ya...don't make us do it."

I went to the division line opposite table to start the second half...fully expecting coach A to be standing. To my relief he was sitting.
And you know what...he sat for the rest of the game and never said a word the whole second half.

What the heck got into him?

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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 06:42am
Huck Finn
 
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Blindzebra, I would say you did the right thing except I don't like to respond to comments. I will respond to questions, within reason, all night but responding to comments can lead to other things.
Rookiedude, I wouldn't have got so personal with the coach. The other coach or someone from his team could hear this and jump all over it. If it isn't loud enough or you are close to the coach then they can jump on the fact that you might give the impression of having a personal conversation with this coach. If he is winning by so much he needs to grow up a little. Just the slight impression of coddling him by not T'ing him up for the stare and other things could turn out to be ammunition for the other coach. It is really sad to me that this happens so much at the high school level. He was wasting too much energy with all of that extra drama. These are just my opinions but I've been there and understand how these things feel.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 08:10am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude

1) Coach A went nuts. He asked, "What is going on here?" and requested a TO. My other partner, U2 who was C tableside, granted the TO.
Coach A came out on the court for the 30 second TO and spent the most of the time staring at U1. (I guess for the missed OOB call)
Coach A called me over at the end of his TO to tell me that my partner probably made that bad call because he had questioned him about another call. I said, "C'mon coach, you know that's not the case...we probably just missed it...c'mon, your up by 25...let's get to half-time."

2) After the TO, the ball was put into play by U2 in front of coach A's bench. The ball was inbounded and was being passed around the perimeter...all of a sudden I hear a "tweet" and U2 is giving coach A a T.
We get together at the center circle and U1 says he going opposite table, U2 says he will go tableside, and I administered the free throws.
Before I went to administer the FT's...coach A called me over again. He said, "Dan, all I said was U2 is pissing me off and he gives me a T for that?" I was there only briefly and didn't say much of anything...just that we were shooting 2. I really couldn't believe this was happening...I figured the coach was just showing off for his wife, who was the scorekeeper, or something like that.

3) At the start of the 2nd half I went over and told coach A that he knows the rule...he will be seatbelted for the 2nd half. He starts in again, "So that's all you guys could talk about at halftime...that I'll be seatbelted?...well I don't care...I'm not sitting...I don't care...I'll miss the next game...I just don't care!!"
Now I got a little more personal...I said, "C'mon Scott, you know we'll have to get ya...don't make us do it."

1) The coach directly questioned the integrity of one of your partners, Dude. And your reply to that was to tell him that your partner missed the call? And don't give me "I said that 'we' missed it". He's talking about your partner's call, and you're basically telling him that your partner missed it. WOW! Are you kidding me? Instead of pleading with him to be nice, you shoulda taken over right there as R and either "T"d him up immediately or laid the law down to him. WOW! "My partner screwed up, coach, but please forget about it and be nice. Please, please." WOW!

2)If you hadda taken care of business during your conversation with the coach, this "T" mighta never happened. And then U2 has enough balls to not only call it but to say that he'll go tableside to answer any questions the coach might have about his "T"- and you then get involved with your buddy again. Of course the coach called you over. He already knows from history that he can say just about anything to you about your partners, and you'll let him get away with it. There's no wayinhell you should be going over to this coach in this situation with your partner standing right there.

3) Why wasn't the coach informed at the time of the "T" that he was seatbelted? Isn't that your job as R? Are you telling me that you let him stand the rest of the first half? The coach deliberately called YOU over after his "T" to whine about it. Don't you think that maybe he maybe shoulda been reminded about the seatbelt thing at that time when he's standing there complaining about your partners? And then the coach goes off again after half time? And your response again is to plead "Aw Scotty, please be nice. Please, please. For me, Scotty?".

Dude, I think that you need to do some serious thinking about this one. You didn't do a very good job for your crew and officials in general in this one at all. Imo, you seem to be more worried about retaining your good relationship with Scotty than taking care of business out there. Might be helpful if you go back and read Blind Zebra's post, and see how he took care of bidness. He supported and backed up his partner, and then did what he had to do. If you get any more games with that same coach and your same partners, it also might be wise to let U2 be the R, Dude.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 17th, 2004 at 08:19 AM]
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 09:20am
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
Blindzebra, I would say you did the right thing except I don't like to respond to comments. I will respond to questions, within reason, all night but responding to comments can lead to other things.
Rookiedude, I wouldn't have got so personal with the coach. The other coach or someone from his team could hear this and jump all over it. If it isn't loud enough or you are close to the coach then they can jump on the fact that you might give the impression of having a personal conversation with this coach. If he is winning by so much he needs to grow up a little. Just the slight impression of coddling him by not T'ing him up for the stare and other things could turn out to be ammunition for the other coach. It is really sad to me that this happens so much at the high school level. He was wasting too much energy with all of that extra drama. These are just my opinions but I've been there and understand how these things feel.
Personal? By using the coach's name? I use the coaches' names every game every time I talk to them and I am thrilled when they remember and use mine.

I think RookieDude did exactly what was needed to keep the coach in the game and handled himself extremely well.

I'm OK with BZ's handling of the original situation as well.

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Dec 17th, 2004 at 09:29 AM]
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 09:32am
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Geez Jurassic, somebody put hot peppers in your coffee or something this morning? I certainly don't see where RookieDude sold out his partner and it sounds like he stayed calm in the storm and tried to keep a lid on the volatile coach. I think he did just fine.

Z
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 09:42am
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Jurassic, I totally understand what you are saying. Is it our job to continually try to calm a coach down and tell him "we missed one?" I don't think so. I was told years ago to address the coach as coach and use a player's number even if you know their name. Remember, all this from a coach who won the game by 40. What would he do/say in a close game?
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 10:18am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
WOW! WOW! WOW!
Calm down JR...your pacemaker may explode!

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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 10:27am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude

At the start of the 2nd half I went over and told coach A that he knows the rule...he will be seatbelted for the 2nd half. He starts in again, "So that's all you guys could talk about at halftime...that I'll be seatbelted?...well I don't care...I'm not sitting...I don't care...I'll miss the next game...I just don't care!!"
*Tweet*

Okay coach, feel free to stand for the second half, but you'll be doing it in the locker room.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude

At the start of the 2nd half I went over and told coach A that he knows the rule...he will be seatbelted for the 2nd half. He starts in again, "So that's all you guys could talk about at halftime...that I'll be seatbelted?...well I don't care...I'm not sitting...I don't care...I'll miss the next game...I just don't care!!"
*Tweet*

Okay coach, feel free to stand for the second half, but you'll be doing it in the locker room.
If that's your style...be my guest.

Listen, JR stated I sold out my partner and I pleaded with the Coach...that's ridiculous.

We kicked a couple of calls...we heard a coach vent...we whacked the coach...we communicated...we finished a game with both coaches and no more problems.

JR definitley knows the rules inside and out...but after reading some of his overreaction on my game management, it makes me wonder if he gets out much.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
WOW! WOW! WOW!
Calm down JR...your pacemaker may explode!

Dude, I wasn't mad when I wrote that. It's a philosophy difference between us obviously. When you posted that story, I though that maybe you wanted some feed-back. Hey, you got it. Maybe I'm "Old School", but I had it drilled into my head that I should never make any comment to any coach about one of my partner's calls unless it was supportive. If my partner wants to tell the coach that he mighta missed one, well, then that's up to my partner- and my partner only. I also had it drilled into me to never get personal or friendly with coaches, players, fans, etc., when I'm refereeing. Polite, responsive, even-tempered,willing to listen, etc.,etc.,.....yes. Buddy-buddy, no. You also should know from experience that what I wrote was just my personal opinion, but it also wasn't personal to you. If anybody feels that my opinion was wrong, then they sureashell are entitled to their opinion also. I'll respect their opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

Btw, JR does get out every now and then. JR also is the one in his association that has to deal with any coach's or school complaints that do come in. And deal with them honestly and fairly. JR is also the one that has to deal with the fallout as to how the officials he assigns are acting during games. JR is also the one that gets the phone calls from officials saying "do you know what my partner did tonight?". Yup, lemme ease your concern, JR still gets out a little, Dude. And JR stll stands by what he wrote above.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 17th, 2004 at 11:13 AM]
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 11:23am
Huck Finn
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
[BWe kicked a couple of calls...we heard a coach vent...we whacked the coach...we communicated...we finished a game with both coaches and no more problems.
[/B]
Are you french? ( couldn't resist ) From your post, one person kicked (possibly) the call, another coach admitted the call was wrong and the third person T'd the coach.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 11:56am
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I've been lucky so far - had to "stop sign" a couple that were getting close, but they took the hint and settled down. Most of the coaches I've had have been really great so far.

I did T a player Tues night though. A couple minutes into the JV girls game V1 starts a drive from outside the arc & stiff-arms H1 guarding her in the chest, knocking H1 flat on her backside. I blow the whistle & signal the PC foul. Before I can even turn to the table to report the foul V1 utters a commom colloquial euphemism for "bovine excrement", not real loud but loud enough for me to hear, and slams the ball to the floor so it bounces about 12 feet into the air. Whack - I assess her a T for UC. She looks like she's about to say something else, but I gave her the fish eye & she thinks better of it. To the coach's credit, she immediately yanked V1 and we didn't see her again the rest of the quarter. When she did come back in she was as good as gold the rest of the game.
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Old Fri Dec 17, 2004, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
JR does get out every now and then. JR also is the one in his association that has to deal with any coach's or school complaints that do come in
Yeah, Jr, I know you're a big timer...and you know what?
I do value your opinion.
It's just that (here comes my "big timer" sh*t) Dude has been around the block a few times also. Dude can do without all the theatrics and hype when listening to one's opinion.
State your case and don't WOW me to death.

When it comes to one's style in game management...I'm not so sure there is a right way, wrong way, or even a JR way.
Do what is comfortable for you as an official...do what works for you...if someone doesn't like it...they can tell it to the big dog that "deals" with that kind of stuff.

On further review...keep up the theatrics and hype...it's entertaining...it's just more entertaining when it's somebody else getting "rained" on.



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