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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:28pm
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Last night I was working a boy's JV game. Home fans were all in the stands on table side. A couple fans for the visitors were in the stands opposite the table, and the visiting Varsity coach and his assistant were sitting by themselves about midway up on the far end of the stands (opposite the visitor's bench). The entire first half, the visitor's varsity coaches are riding my partner and me loudly. They got on us every time we were on that end of the court. They were relentless and very loud, but we managed to ignore them. Keep in mind the home team went up by about 20 quickly and it stayed that way the entire game. Fouls in the first half were 13 for home and 7 for visitors. The game was not clean, but the home team was clearly the better skilled and more aggressive team. Home JV coach was vocal but respectful. Visitor's JV coach said nothing to us the entire game, coached his kids, and even engaged in some cordial talk just before the second half started. Here's where it got interesting.

Early in the third quarter, during a relatively quiet moment in the game, I'm lead opposite the table on the visitor's end. The visitor's V coach (or his assistant - I'm not sure which was which) yells out at me for all the gym to hear "You don't belong at this level! This level is way too advanced for you!". Well that one got under my skin and as I was running back the other way during transition, I looked up and mouthed "shut up" at him. I know it was the wrong thing to do. I wouldn't have done such a thing if it wasn't a coach and if there were other fans around that area, but I just reacted poorly. He then yelled out "No you shut up!" and at that point I knew I screwed up and I just ignored him from then on.

It turns out I was also being evaluated by the guy who was going to be working the Varsity game. I didn't know I was being evaluated till the end of the game. Now as much as I know I did the wrong thing, I felt like it was an incredibly classless way for a varsity level coach to behave. If he was on the bench as an assistant to the JV coach I would have the ability to handle it properly. But sitting there in the stands, I believe he was way out of line. It just seems inappropriate for a varsity coach to be able to verbally abuse officials from the stands.

I definitely learned something from this. I need to ignore everything I hear and not react to anything in the stands. I got dinged pretty good for it in my evaluation, and I deserved it. I would have never done this if it were a casual fan, a parent, or a kid. And I won't do it again if this or any other coach says anything from a location other than the team bench. It just ruined what otherwise was a pretty good game. Other than that I got a great evaluation.

Just venting...I learned what I learned and the rest is forgotten. Sometimes in order to take a couple steps in the right direction you have to take a step backward.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:41pm
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Good gosh. I am not alone. Was doing a boy's JV game last week. Similar incident. Varsity coach was on opposite side in the bleachers, not a very crowded gym, and never shut up. We got a comment on every trip down the court. I guess you pay your money, (dang, they should charge admission to the visiting coaches if they are gonna act like fans) and you can say what you want, and I guess he was either getting it out of his system before the Varsity game, or warming up for the Varsity game.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:43pm
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If a fan is abusive or is distracting you from your game have them removed by security. No exceptions. Do not threaten, warn, discuss or negotiate. Simply tell security who needs to go and let them do it.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:47pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


If a fan is abusive or is distracting you from your game have them removed by security. No exceptions. Do not threaten, warn, discuss or negotiate. Simply tell security who needs to go and let them do it.
I never even thought about that option. Oh boy what fun it would have been to see the Varsity coach escorted from the gym.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:47pm
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the evaluator

Curious, how did your evaluator sugest that you handle that situation and was the coach as obnoxious in the varsity game as he was in yours. Not real sure that I would have done this in this situation, but you cold always get game management to escort him to the door. On the way out you could have told him he does not belong at this level game either, and that it is to advanced for him. I have had to let fans leave early before if they were getting out of hand. Then again you can't go around tossing every fan that hollers at you either.

I am just curious what your partner said and what the evaluator said, more specifically.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Early in the third quarter, during a relatively quiet moment in the game, I'm lead opposite the table on the visitor's end. The visitor's V coach (or his assistant - I'm not sure which was which) yells out at me for all the gym to hear "You don't belong at this level! This level is way too advanced for you!".
Why didn't you T the coach at this moment? He was humiliating you in front of all the gym! This is unacceptable. That said, I wasn't there, so maybe you had a reason not to do it.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
"You don't belong at this level! This level is way too advanced for you!".
Let me game admin show this guy the parking lot.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:53pm
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Absolutely

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


If a fan is abusive or is distracting you from your game have them removed by security. No exceptions. Do not threaten, warn, discuss or negotiate. Simply tell security who needs to go and let them do it.
Including the Varsity Coach for the next game. PERIOD.

Childish fan-like behavior from a coach is absolutely unacceptable - even if he is in the stands as a fan. Kick him out and keep him out during his own game.

If you got degraded in your evaluation for telling him to shut up or giving the zipper signal, I think that was wrong. If any poor mark was called for, I would say it was for not ejecting obnoxious fans.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:53pm
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Re: the evaluator

Quote:
Originally posted by Redhouse
Curious, how did your evaluator sugest that you handle that situation and was the coach as obnoxious in the varsity game as he was in yours. Not real sure that I would have done this in this situation, but you cold always get game management to escort him to the door. On the way out you could have told him he does not belong at this level game either, and that it is to advanced for him. I have had to let fans leave early before if they were getting out of hand. Then again you can't go around tossing every fan that hollers at you either.

I am just curious what your partner said and what the evaluator said, more specifically.
Well as I entered the changing room after our game, the evaluator was doing his pre-game with his partner and only handed us our evaluations on his way out the door to work the varsity game, so I never had a chance to discuss it with him. Although he did say he's be open to talk about anything in our evals at the next meeting or whenever. I am going to email him and see what he would have thought if I had chosen to have the coach removed. I'm guessing he'll just say I need to ignore any comments from the stands and keep my poise at all times. Which I suppose is one way of looking at it. Everyone has their own threshold of tolerance. My partner also thought the coach was an extreme annoyance, but he just ignored it. Clearly I shouldn't have handled it the way I did.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:54pm
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T a fan??

Wise Weasel, which rule allows you to give a technical foul to a fan. Please let me know if there is one, because I will be giving a lot of them out now that I know the rules. Do the opposing fans get to pick the shooter?
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wise Weasel
Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
Early in the third quarter, during a relatively quiet moment in the game, I'm lead opposite the table on the visitor's end. The visitor's V coach (or his assistant - I'm not sure which was which) yells out at me for all the gym to hear "You don't belong at this level! This level is way too advanced for you!".
Why didn't you T the coach at this moment? He was humiliating you in front of all the gym! This is unacceptable. That said, I wasn't there, so maybe you had a reason not to do it.
I couldn't T the coach. The game I was working was the JV game and the JV coach was quiet the whole game. The abusive coach was the V coach sitting in the stands nowhere near the team bench.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 12:56pm
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Re: T a fan??

Quote:
Originally posted by Redhouse
Wise Weasel, which rule allows you to give a technical foul to a fan. Please let me know if there is one, because I will be giving a lot of them out now that I know the rules. Do the opposing fans get to pick the shooter?
:S oops... Read too fast I think!...
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 01:02pm
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Re: Re: T a fan??

Quote:
Originally posted by Wise Weasel
Quote:
Originally posted by Redhouse
Wise Weasel, which rule allows you to give a technical foul to a fan. Please let me know if there is one, because I will be giving a lot of them out now that I know the rules. Do the opposing fans get to pick the shooter?
:S oops... Read too fast I think!...
Not really. You can "T" a fan under NFHS rule 2-8-1. The FED doesn't recommend using this option except as a last resort though, as per the note in 2-8-1.There's a good description of the recommended way to call it in the case book under 2.8.1 and the "COMMENT" under it. Recommended reading, as I said.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 01:05pm
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If you know for sure who the fan is attending the game for, you can "T" the coach of said team.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 01:07pm
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Smitty, it is a good sign that you both recognize your error and are prepared to move beyond it. Good job.

Although we might all wish and expect that varsity coaches would exhibit a higher level of sportsmanship than the typical fan, I think the best advice for how to handle them *during the course of the game* is just to consider/treat these coaches as you would any fans. If the coach says something that would you cause you to throw out a fan, have him escorted out. If you wouldn't toss another fan for what he says, ignore him.

*After* the game, on the other hand, I think you can go back to expecting more out of an educator (e.g., a varsity coach). Rather than this being something that *you* take up, might you work with your evaluator/assignor/association to indicate to both the coach and his athletic director and principal that his conduct was not appropriate. If it is just *you* complaining, it may appear that you've got an axe to grind. If it is your association speaking, it might carry more weight. If your evaluator/assignor/association isn't interesting in improving the quality of the experiences for officials, then you're stuck with just living with it (or not, if you don't want to). Best wishes.
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