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Fri Feb 09, 2001, 10:41am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
understand & agree with what you're saying. But, since we're getting into the dirty details, would you also say it's an interrupted dribble or loss of player control when the unguarded point lets the ball dribble a few time while he's screaming out plays? 
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Fri Feb 09, 2001, 11:14am
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BktBallRef, by rule you are correct. Richard makes a good point. If i'm asked to make a judgement on border line loss of control, i think i will error on the side of this being a violation. On the play described, the judgement by one official was different then the other. The post didn't say if the other official saw this as an interupted dribble.
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foulbuster
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Fri Feb 09, 2001, 11:15am
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Rule 4.15.1 says that a dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times. I don't know that I agree that a dribble has been interuppted just because it has bounced off of the floor more than once. Dan_Ref makes a good point. Official's discretion must be used to determine if a player has retained control of the ball or if the dribble has been interuppted.
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Sat Feb 10, 2001, 01:47am
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Quote:
By rule, yes, it would be an interrupted dribble. Why does create a difficult picture for folks to accept? An interrupted dribble doesn't have to be involuntary, but it's still an ID. There's no control while the ball is just bouncing on the floor. B1 is closely guarding A1. Do you continue a closely guarded count during an interrupted dribble? Would you continue the count in the play you describe above, if, for some reason, A1 just allowed the ball to bounce and B1 allowed him to do so by not making a play for the ball? Quote:
Quote:
Think about this: A1 is dribbling in his BC and slaps the ball hard to the floor as he goes around B1. The ball goes to B1's left and A1 goes to B1's right but steps OOB. He doesn't opick up his dribble again until the ball is in his lane. Are you going to whistle A1 OOB? This is very simple guys. Unless he's actually dribbling the ball when he steps on the line, there's no violation. Fight it all you want to but it's the wrong call to make. 
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sat Feb 10, 2001, 11:31am
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Dan's point guard case
R4-15-1
A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)), pushes or bats the ball to the floor once or several times. R4-15-5 An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble. Perhaps there are case book examples that indicate otherwise, but nothing in the dribbling rules say that everytime the ball comes up from the floor it must be pushed back to the floor. If a player allows a ball to bounce in front of them after commencing a dribble, as in Dan's example, I would not consider that case to fall under the category of "momentarily gets away." That statement implies a loss of control, and the following statement seems to confirm it. The ball has never left the control of the point guard and the point can touch it at any point. If the ball gets away from a player, that player would have to move to get the ball and there is clearly a loss of player control. I can't see Dan's case as an interrupted dribble unless there is a specific case that states it is. Also, I would have trouble with allowing a player in the lane for three seconds, then have the point allow the ball to bounce free for a couple of seconds, then start the three second count again. Doesn't seem to be the intent of this rule.
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Sat Feb 10, 2001, 12:31pm
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Re: Dan's point guard case
Quote:
With regards to Dan's question, I'm not really concerned about this play. It's pretty irrelevant whether it's an ID or not. In the play that was originally posted, we have folks who are saying that we don't have an interrupted dribble. That's much more troubling.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Sat Feb 10, 2001, 12:35pm
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No violation. As long as the dribbler does not touch the ball while out of bounds or touch any object out of bounds, then she may return to the floor and continue to dribble the ball.
As for the fumble-dribble-fumble suggestion, she never lost control of the ball such as in an air dribble. As long as she maintained (regained) control of the ball it is not a fumble. Too often we answer a thread with a rule which does not apply. In my experience, stick to one rule and do not bring in other 'what ifs.'
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Sat Feb 10, 2001, 04:37pm
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Re: Re: Dan's point guard case
Quote:
was thinking specifically of 3 seconds when I brought this up. If it is an ID then we suspend the 3 second count, obviously, and we also suspend the 5 second count. I don't see this play happening in a closely held case, unless the point guard wants to spend lots of time on the bench. If this play constitutes an ID then a *really* clever coach could have his 6'8" guy camp forever while his PG dribbles every *other* bounce on the perimeter, which does not make sense to me. I believe there is a case book play somewhere that says the ball can take multiple bounces between dribbles but I just got back from a game & I'm too lazy to look it up right now. When I find it I'll post it. Good discussion! -Dan
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