FT shooter wearing earrings

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Then why would you let a player shoot a free throw while wearing an earring? Isn't shooting a free throw "playing"?

Mark, he/she would simply have to remove the jewelry. I am not bring in a sub just because I notice this at this moment.

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I don't let kids play with rubber bands on their wrists or anywhere else. Problem solved.

Huh??

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I don't. I treat them the same.

You don't what? I treat them the same as well. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Peace

[IAABO_Ref]

That's a player who is entering the game.

4-34-1
A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time.

In 3-5-5 the team member has not yet become a player because he has not entered the court legally. So if the officials notice the ear rings prior to the ball becoming live then the sub is still a team member and it's not a player. The case where a PLAYER is discovered with jewelry he/she must be removed and must attempt the second free unless injured or ill and so on.

In 3-5-5-A(c) it says nothing about a player there is a difference.

[thumpferee]

Remove player until illegal equipment is removed! Same as untucked shirt (after warning). Player Gotta Go! Need a replacement Coach!

Pre-game:Coach, are your players properly equipped?
Captains: tell your teammates no jewelry!

Case closed!

Officials need to apply the rules so the players and coaches know what the ruling is. I have noticed that some officials will apply the rule, and some will not. IMO we as officials need to get on the same page and apply the rules of the game whether or not it is a youth 5th grade game or a varsity high school game. By making the call with regard to the rules as they were intended not only teaches the players, but to better educate the coaches who are teaching our youth how to play the game by the rules.

Making up rules does not help our youth to become better players and become more knowledgable in the sports in which they participate. And when it comes to youth sports, I feel that is part of our job as officials, is to educate them by administering the rules of the game in which they are intended.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Officials need to apply the rules so the players and coaches know what the ruling is. I have noticed that some officials will apply the rule, and some will not. IMO we as officials need to get on the same page and apply the rules of the game whether or not it is a youth 5th grade game or a varsity high school game. By making the call with regard to the rules as they were intended not only teaches the players, but to better educate the coaches who are teaching our youth how to play the game by the rules.

You are right. I apply the way the rules state it and the way they are applied in my area. We do not remove players from the game that have on jewelry. JR in my opinion not only gave the rule, he also gave the widely accepted practice in my area. That is what I am doing. I am not removing players from the game because the have their shirt out, just like I am not removing players from the game that have on jewelry. You wait until a dead ball and you take action. You do not have to make a big production out of it.

Originally posted by thumpferee
Making up rules does not help our youth to become better players and become more knowledgable in the sports in which they participate. And when it comes to youth sports, I feel that is part of our job as officials, is to educate them by administering the rules of the game in which they are intended.

I do not know who you are suggesting is making up rules here? I think the disagreement is what rules apply and what rules do not apply. You can be a rulebook official and apply ever rule to the letter regardless of common sense all you like, but it will not make your partners or the coaches very happy either. If I removed every single player because their shirt came out, I would not only waste a lot of time, I would cause further problems for myself and my partners during that game. Because if I am that picky about that rule, guess what other rules they are going to want me and my partners to call to the letter?

Peace

[Adam]

Originally posted by IAABO_Ref
That's a player who is entering the game.

4-34-1
A player is one of five team members who are legally on the court at any given time.

In 3-5-5 the team member has not yet become a player because he has not entered the court legally. So if the officials notice the ear rings prior to the ball becoming live then the sub is still a team member and it's not a player. The case where a PLAYER is discovered with jewelry he/she must be removed and must attempt the second free unless injured or ill and so on.

In 3-5-5-A(c) it says nothing about a player there is a difference.

By what rule are we clearing the lane for the 2nd shot?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

By what rule are we clearing the lane for the 2nd shot?

Yup, same rule that let's you stop play on a missed FT to make a substitution for the player with the jewelry. And then have to go to an AP. Or, if it's bleeding player, you let them shoot their 2nd FT, and then blow your whistle whether it's made or missed, and ask the coach if he wants to put in a substitute for the bleeding FT shooter or use a TO to keep them in the game. Same logic.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Mark, he/she would simply have to remove the jewelry. I am not bring in a sub just because I notice this at this moment.

Huh??

You don't what? I treat them the same as well. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Peace

Rut - what I meant is that if I notice a kid wearing jewelry, I wait until the next dead ball and make them take it off. I do the same thing with rubber bands. What I meant by "anywhere else" was that I don't let them wear them around their necks, upper arm or ankles (and yes, I have seen all of these, bizarre as it sounds).

I'm not suggesting throwing a player out, but I would not let a player shoot a free throw if I noticed he or she was wearing jewelry at that time. I would make the player go take it off, then come back and shoot.

If I was in a nasty mood (and that never happens), I might call an indirect on the coach for lying to me before the game that all jewelry was off that team's players.

[Kelvin green]

it says nothing about a player there is a difference.
[/B][/QUOTE]

By what rule are we clearing the lane for the 2nd shot? [/B][/QUOTE]

I would ask the same question. In NF I dont recall any play in the case book (Where is MTD and the briefcase?) or any interpretation that allows you to shoot a shot other than a T or intentional where you dont line up. (maybe there is one on uniforms but I dont recall it)

Then in this you are giving the OPPONENT the Ball whether or not it is made or missed. WHY?

The ball by rule is not to become dead after shot. Now we are killing alive ball and awarding it to the other team. Now you are penalizing the Offense by taking the ball away if shooter missed and could have rebound.

There is no provision of the rules that allows you to award the ball to the Opponent because of a jewelry issue.

Lets use some common sense here

1) do it the way it was handled
2) If it will take too long and delay the game ask the coach if they want a time out or if he wants to sub...
3) If she wants to keep them in replace her...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I'm not suggesting throwing a player out, but I would not let a player shoot a free throw if I noticed he or she was wearing jewelry at that time. I would make the player go take it off, then come back and shoot.

This is all that I am suggesting. That is why I agreed with JR. Just let them take it out and move on. Unless they give you a problem, I would never remove them from the game because they had an earring on.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
it says nothing about a player there is a difference.

By what rule are we clearing the lane for the 2nd shot? [/B][/QUOTE]

I would ask the same question. In NF I dont recall any play in the case book (Where is MTD and the briefcase?) or any interpretation that allows you to shoot a shot other than a T or intentional where you dont line up. (maybe there is one on uniforms but I dont recall it)

[/B][/QUOTE]

The only two you're missing, that I can think of, is a correctable error and with no time on the clock.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Because if I am that picky about that rule, guess what other rules they are going to want me and my partners to call to the letter?

Peace [/B]

That is exactly my point!

Do we not need to call the game to the letter? We need to be on the same page as officials as to what the call should be! And the call is clearly stated in the rules book as Bob stated.

As far as making up rules, I was refering to the comment about clearing the lane and allowing the player who is INELIGIBLE to shoot FT's. Make them remove the earings, maybe, but then you talk about wasting time! Is that not taking time from the game?

Coaches and players were already fore-warned to remove all jewelry.

Is a T warranted to the coach because his/her players were not properly equipped? Or improperly equipped?

[cmathews]

Originally posted by thumpferee

That is exactly my point!

Do we not need to call the game to the letter? We need to be on the same page as officials as to what the call should be! And the call is clearly stated in the rules book as Bob stated.

As far as making up rules, I was refering to the comment about clearing the lane and allowing the player who is INELIGIBLE to shoot FT's. Make them remove the earings, maybe, but then you talk about wasting time! Is that not taking time from the game?

Coaches and players were already fore-warned to remove all jewelry.

Is a T warranted to the coach because his/her players were not properly equipped? Or improperly equipped? [/B]

No we don't want to call the game to the letter of the rules...we need to call it to the intent of the rules and take into account advantage/disadvantage.... I don't agree that it is clearly stated in the rules as there are some of us who disagree and have quoted the case book ruling that supports our position..

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by thumpferee
[/B]

That is exactly my point!

Do we not need to call the game to the letter? We need to be on the same page as officials as to what the call should be! And the call is clearly stated in the rules book as Bob stated.

[/B][/QUOTE]And our point is that we think that Bob's rule citation is not applicable at all to this particular situation. We're saying that's it's covered explicitily under a different rule. Therein lies the rub. We can't be on the same page if we're using different pages(of the rule book).

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by cmathews

No we don't want to call the game to the letter of the rules...we need to call it to the intent of the rules and take into account advantage/disadvantage.... I don't agree that it is clearly stated in the rules as there are some of us who disagree and have quoted the case book ruling that supports our position.. [/B]

NCAA A.R.18 Player is found to be wearing jewelry. RULING. the game shall be stopped immediately or be required to leave the game etc...

Again, talking about delaying the game! What is easier? Delaying the game to benefit the offender, or the purpose of the rule?

Someone mentioned advantage or disadvantage. Who is gaining an advantage here? Obviously the offender has the advantage if you allow time to remove jewelry which should have not been present in the first place.

JMO

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've got to be honest. I was with Jurassic on this (remove the jewelry, not the player, and continue the game) until I saw Bob Jenkins response.

Case book plays are very specific - REMOVE THE PLAYER.

Not sure how these plays became related to rule 2-4-5

Rule 2-4-5 ...Prior to each contest, the head coach shall verify that his/her team member's uniforms and equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that all participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior throughout the contest.

but the case plays are:

2.4.5 Situation A
Before the contest both coaches verify that their teams are legally equipped. In the third quarter A1 is discovered wearing a ring. RULING A1 must leave the game and remove the jewelry and may re-enter the game at the next substitution opportunity, but no penalty is assessed against A1 or the coach.

2.4.5 Situation B
To the referee's pre-game inquiry of coaches regarding all team members being legally equipped and wearing the uniform properly, both coaches responded "Yes." Three minutes into the first quarter, U1 observes A5 with a tongue stud. RULING: When the tongue stud is noticed, A5 must leave the game and may not return until the stud has been removed. There is no technical foul assessed. (3-5-6)

3-5-6 Jewelry shall not be worn.

Avoid the conflict and ensure no jewelry before the game starts, during warm-ups.

Thanks, Bob!