The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
Situation A:
At the end of regulation the score is tied 62-62. 4:00 goes on the clock and both teams come out for the start if over time. The ball is tossed up and Team A controled the tip. Right after the jump ball the official scorer hits the horn and beckon's the R to the table. He/She informs the R that he did not count a basket for Team A in regulation and the score really is 64-62 in favor of Team A. Whats the Call?


Situation B:
Same scenario as above except the official scorer beckons the R over prior to the tip off to start overtime. Whats the call?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 246
Sit A

In Sit A, you correct the score and finish the OT. Once you start the OT period you must finish it unless you are stopping it for some other rule or reason, but not for a scoring correction.

Sit B I am not real sure about. I am positive some of these other guys will have the rule and reason.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 246
your call?

BTW, How did you guys call it?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Winchester, NH
Posts: 184
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,486
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!

Now that being said, we also have another rule 2-11-11, which tells us, "A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score." So if there is a correction to the score that needs to be made either during or before the overtime, it can still be done.

As the rule Rick quoted tells you, once you start an extra period, you must finish it. However, if you correct the score before the ball becomes live to start the extra period, then you simply approve the final score and end the game.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 12:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 10
4:00 goes on the clock

Why is only 4 minutes put on the clock, should it not be five?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 02:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,486
Quote:
Originally posted by keithb
4:00 goes on the clock

Why is only 4 minutes put on the clock, should it not be five?
Keith,
We are discussing high school rules. They play 4 minute overtime periods. The NCAA uses 5 minute periods for college games.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 04:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref

If the referee is doing his job correctly...
Nevada, some of us haven't quite gotten all the kinks worked out yet.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 05:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,486
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref

If the referee is doing his job correctly...
Nevada, some of us haven't quite gotten all the kinks worked out yet.
Do you mean your game administration or my use of the male pronoun?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 12:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref

If the referee is doing his job correctly...
Nevada, some of us haven't quite gotten all the kinks worked out yet.
Do you mean your game administration or my use of the male pronoun?
I gave up on the gender/pronoun issue a long time ago. I meant that I agree referees should be on top of these kinds of things, but some of us (I'm not including you here) haven't quite made it there yet. I still can be distracted from the necessities by the spot of water I noticed over there, the foul two plays ago that I shouldn't have passed on, and concern over the state of the living room when I get home to two teenage boys who've been alone all evening. I SHOULD be on top of the score thing, but I ain't always. So it's good to have a "fixing" mechanism and to know how to mop up the damage.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 12:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!
I completely disagree.

It certainly is possible for the table to tell you one thing only to correct themselves at a later time. I know it has happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 12:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,856
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!
I completely disagree.

It certainly is possible for the table to tell you one thing only to correct themselves at a later time. I know it has happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others.
Yep!
I don't know to many R's that go over and check the math of the scorekeeper...if they tell me the score is correct...I believe them.
__________________
Dan Ivey
Tri-City Sports Officials Asso. (TCSOA)
Member since 1989
Richland, WA
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 10:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,486
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!
I completely disagree.

It certainly is possible for the table to tell you one thing only to correct themselves at a later time. I know it has happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others.
Now Dan, I'm not saying that the table crew can't get you into big trouble; I'm just saying that the R has a DUTY to check and approve the score at the end of each half. By fulfilling that duty, hopefully, this kind of problem can be avoided.
I also know that most referees either shirk this duty or are not even aware of it. It seems pretty easy to me to ask the scorer if the book matches the scoreboard when you switch the arrow and pick up your jackets at halftime.

I go a step further. I always tell the table crew (home and visiting scorer) to check that their books match up with each other during the halftime intermission and to let me know if there is a problem when we return.
I also instruct them that I will point at them after the final horn as I leave the court. That is my signal to approve the final score. If all is OK they are to give me a thumbs up sign. If we have a problem, I want them to demonstratively wave me over.

I was taught in my first year not to leave the game in the hands of the table. Know the arrow, know the clock, know the score, know the team fouls, etc.

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 11:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!
I completely disagree.

It certainly is possible for the table to tell you one thing only to correct themselves at a later time. I know it has happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others.
Now Dan, I'm not saying that the table crew can't get you into big trouble; I'm just saying that the R has a DUTY to check and approve the score at the end of each half. By fulfilling that duty, hopefully, this kind of problem can be avoided.
I also know that most referees either shirk this duty or are not even aware of it. It seems pretty easy to me to ask the scorer if the book matches the scoreboard when you switch the arrow and pick up your jackets at halftime.

I go a step further. I always tell the table crew (home and visiting scorer) to check that their books match up with each other during the halftime intermission and to let me know if there is a problem when we return.
I also instruct them that I will point at them after the final horn as I leave the court. That is my signal to approve the final score. If all is OK they are to give me a thumbs up sign. If we have a problem, I want them to demonstratively wave me over.

I was taught in my first year not to leave the game in the hands of the table. Know the arrow, know the clock, know the score, know the team fouls, etc.

Well Nevada, let's go to the videotape & see what it was you said:

Quote:
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen!
If you're backing off, as I think you are, then that's good.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 17, 2004, 11:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Durkee
Rule 5-7-4 reads "Once the ball becomes live in the extra period, it will be played even though a correction in the fourth quarter score is made." 6-1-1 states the the ball becomes live when "the tossed ball leaves the referee's hand(s)".

I bet this shouldn't be read literally. It must mean the score at the end of the fourth quarter. I can't imagine that it would only apply to a correction of a mistake that affects the score in of the fourth quarter.
If the referee is doing his job correctly, this should never happen! 2-5-7 The referee shall check and approve the score at the end of each half. Pay close attention to those duties of the referee!
I completely disagree.

It certainly is possible for the table to tell you one thing only to correct themselves at a later time. I know it has happened to me and I'm sure it's happened to others.
Now Dan, I'm not saying that the table crew can't get you into big trouble; I'm just saying that the R has a DUTY to check and approve the score at the end of each half. By fulfilling that duty, hopefully, this kind of problem can be avoided.
I also know that most referees either shirk this duty or are not even aware of it. It seems pretty easy to me to ask the scorer if the book matches the scoreboard when you switch the arrow and pick up your jackets at halftime.

I go a step further. I always tell the table crew (home and visiting scorer) to check that their books match up with each other during the halftime intermission and to let me know if there is a problem when we return.
I also instruct them that I will point at them after the final horn as I leave the court. That is my signal to approve the final score. If all is OK they are to give me a thumbs up sign. If we have a problem, I want them to demonstratively wave me over.

I was taught in my first year not to leave the game in the hands of the table. Know the arrow, know the clock, know the score, know the team fouls, etc.

Nevedaref:
I agree with you in the fact that the R needs to check. I know for a fact that this particular part the game is over looked. I myself am guilty of it. How many timnes do we get into an overtime game, or what we think is one, and we lose focus of the score. Our focus quickly shifts to other things. I am not sure what Nevada does, but Indiana is still working two man, and almost all of the officials after a game run into the locker room as soon as the horn sounds and forgets to check the book. So when we get into this situation we haven't racticed" it all year so we wouldn't do it now. I am with you don't leave the game in the hands of the table.

P.S. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN TO ME IT HAPPENED TO TWO THER OFFICIALS AND THEY WERE COMPLETLY WRONG IN THE WAY THE WENT ABOUT IT.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:17am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1