Key to Part 1

[ref18]

Mr. Blue,

After reading through both this thread and the one in the football thread about overruling another official, I have come to this conclusion.

Your posts seem to have absolutely no value to this board. Why don't you go back to your baseball section, and leave the rest of us and Rut alone.

[WindyCityBlue]

Why, do you still need the answers?


I'll never understand how you can stand back and allow cheating here, but punish it on the field or court.
That is hypocrisy at its zenith.

BTW, my argument was just as vehement on the baseball board when a couple of guys started posting the answers there. I have never protested discussing the question and teaching those that want to learn. But, giving out the key, while the test is still active in many states, crosses the line.
How can you argue with that?

[ref18]

I already have the answers.

My main point is that if someone is doing something you don't like, ignore it. There is no reason for you to start attacking those of us who would like a copy of the answers. In my area, it takes a month for the tests to get marked. I would like to know what my score is the day after I submit my test.

If some people are using them to cheat, then so be it, that is on their conscience, not any of ours.

Also, I don't think it fair to assign playoff games based soley on exam marks. Doing well on the exam has no bearing on what kind of official you are. Honestly, who really needs to know what the maximum width of the rubber seam separating the panels of the ball?? How will this bit of information help an official do a state final. As officials we should write a mechanics exam and a rules test like the IAABO test, one that tests how we would officiate a game.

[WindyCityBlue]

ref18: I already have the answers.

WCB: Did you take the test on your own? Were you supplied with the answers prior to taking it?
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ref 18: My main point is that if someone is doing something you don't like, ignore it.

WCB: Are you really an official?
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ref18: There is no reason for you to start attacking those of us who would like a copy of the answers. In my area, it takes a month for the tests to get marked. I would like to know what my score is the day after I submit my test.

WCB: I have lived in states that graded the tests v-e-r-y slowly. After I sent it in, I talked with a bunch of my friends and asked them about questions that puzzled me or talked about the latest "Fed word game". I always knew within a point or two how I did. If you still live in a state that doesn't have immediate scoring, there is always the phone. Many state associations (IHSA included) has officials sites that have password protected access. We can take the test and have it scored immediately online. I might lobby my group to explore that path.
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ref18: If some people are using them to cheat, then so be it, that is on their conscience, not any of ours.

WCB: C'mon, you aren't really an official are you?
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ref18: Also, I don't think it fair to assign playoff games based soley on exam marks. Doing well on the exam has no bearing on what kind of official you are. Honestly, who really needs to know what the maximum width of the rubber seam separating the panels of the ball?? How will this bit of information help an official do a state final. As officials we should write a mechanics exam and a rules test like the IAABO test, one that tests how we would officiate a game.

WCB: I agree, using the test solely to schedule the playoffs is problematic. I don't think anyone here has ever advocated that. In Illinois, it is 1/8th of the formula. (The number of factors just changed so it might less or more.) Again, the test is used to evaluate AND inform. While a state final caliber official will usually score well, it's the playoff rounds before the final that will suffer when inferior officials cheat. We all know the guys that do just the bare minimum, fly beneath the radar and take advantage of every break that comes their way. Do you want that guy working instead of you?

[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Oct 28th, 2004 at 03:22 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You knew exactly where yur answers were going?
Several IHSA members have pseudonyms and I saw several on this site. Are you sure that what you transmitted was not given to anyone that could use it to cheat? I didn't think so.

What is your point? I know of several organizations that just went over the exam or will be going over the exam. They put in on their agendas for meetings. What are they going over the test to do? They are not going over the test to do tidally winks.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Lest anyone be confused, the IHSA policy does use the Part 1 score as one of the factors in slotting officials for playoff assignments. The equation has many factors, true. But, if Joe is equal to Bob on the coaches ratins, Top 15 lists and past playoff experience, this score can mean the difference between who gets the assignment. Let's say Joe, (like most of us) takes the test and scores a 90. he got tripped up on a couple of "word issues" and didn't really check into the new rules like he should have. But he's a pretty good official and was fortunate enough to be assigned a nice Regional contest last year. Bob, on the other hand, got the answers from Jeff and turned in a perfect score. When the decision is made, all things being equal, who do you assign? Remember, we have a lot of guys working out there and not all have been seen by the powers that be. For A Sectional assignment, the Assistant Director will look at the computer generated scores and figure, "This guy must really be on the ball. Four straight years of 99's and 100's."

Funny you should say that. Kurt said to me that one of the factors he uses is what kind of game you are used to working. He said directly that they know where your ratings come from. They know the rivalry games or the teams that are good or the pressure or talent is raised. He flat out said that if you are working a game like Quincy vs. Moline means much more than working Monmouth Warren vs. Roseville. Funny I have not seen one thing listed as to that "requirements" in any literature but he seems to figure that it is important. Or better yet, the guy that is working 15 different conferences gets more consideration than the guy working just 2. If you pass the test you get at least one point. You are not guaranteed getting any points in the other categories other than ranking (X, R, C). You might not even get one point the other categories. And if you have not worked a State Final, you will never get a perfect score anyway. And we know that they do with officials after they have sent you to a few State Finals.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I ask you, is it so innocent now? Aren't officials supposed to penalize those that cheat and are found out?

You are the only idiot that thinks the power rating is used that way. But then again, you have done a good job of proving that all by yourself.

Peace

[bfed]

Rut,
I thought this was all through. Last time I looked we had just hit 2 pages of responses. I open up the site today and we have 5 pages. I am sorry about all the grief. I am still on your side about this topic. I have had 20 people e-mail me for the answers. We must all be bad boys and girls for wanting to check our work.
These tests still don't tell if you can ref. I have gone to many clinics with D-1 officials that say the rules knowledge is not as important as officiating the game.
They are making over $1000 per game and we are getting $60. Who should we listen too?

[JRutledge]

Just so anyone can look it up, this information is on Page 17 and 18 of the Handbook.

IHSA Handbook

D. Post-Season Assignments. The IHSA will assign officials to post season tournaments. Assignments are based on a number of factors, but not limited to the
following:

1. Power Rating 30 points possible
a. Promotional level X – R – C, C – 5 pts., R – 3 pts., X – 1 pts.
b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.
c. Previous tournament experience SF – 5 pt., Super or Semi – 4 pts.,
Sec/Quart 3—pts., Regional – 1 pt.

d. All rating (use percentile based on average rating divided by # of ratings)
90% - 5 pts. 80% - 4 pts. 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts. 50 % - 1 pt.

e. Number of High School varsity games worked
70% - 5 pts., 60% - 4 pts., 50% - 3 pts., 40% - 2 pts., 30% - 1 pt.
(based on number of games allowed by the IHSA by-laws in regular season for each sport by the IHSA by-laws)

f. Top 15 List from Associations, Assignors, and Schools (based on percentile of average rating divide by the number of rating)
90% - 5 pts., 80% - 4 pts., 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts., 50% - 1 pt.

2. Must have a current certified clinic
3. Must have attended a rules interpretation meeting during the current year
4. Officials availability
5. Geographic consideration of officials assigned
6. Preference is given to Certified Official with high power rating – then to
Recognized Official with high power rating. High power rating may move a
Registered Official over a Certified Official in early rounds of the post season
tournament.
7. Information that the IHSA has on each official in our database that is reviewed
to determine assignments:

a. Power rating (maximum 30 pts.)
b. Percentile rating of the official
c. Percentile rating of the Top 15 List
d. Promotion level (X, R, C)
e. Previous tournament experience
f. Games the officials have officiated broken down by Class A – Class AA and
boys or girls games
g. Geographic location
h. Years of experience
i. Last certified clinic date & level of the clinic
j. Last rules interpretation date
k. Probation/Suspension status

Each official needs to make sure all data is correct that is on their own personal site and on the renewal form.
The information used to determine the Power Rating is only the last two years of data collected. The computer updates weekly, so that coaches and officials ratings
and Top 15 Lists are a combination of the last two years on each official.



[Edited by JRutledge on Oct 28th, 2004 at 04:13 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bfed
Rut,
I thought this was all through. Last time I looked we had just hit 2 pages of responses. I open up the site today and we have 5 pages. I am sorry about all the grief. I am still on your side about this topic. I have had 20 people e-mail me for the answers. We must all be bad boys and girls for wanting to check our work.
These tests still don't tell if you can ref. I have gone to many clinics with D-1 officials that say the rules knowledge is not as important as officiating the game.
They are making over $1000 per game and we are getting $60. Who should we listen too?

Do not apologize, you did nothing wrong. We just have a village idiot that thinks he know everything and all things in our state. At least JR has a legitimate disagreement with our philosophy. I disagree with JR on this, but he has made a point that could apply. Windy has been trying to threaten me with all kinds of things for about 7 months now. He has had nothing stick or no one listens to him so he thinks I am going to say anything I would not in any other situation.

Our states use these test as one very small factor. It is an open book test and we get our score immediately if you do it online. I have only found one official (who is not Windy) that has ever had objections to groups going over the answers together. And he was not respected as an official and many did not care what he thought. I am sure there are more officials that feel that way, and have reported that feeling to the state. It has never changed and I have never heard of anyone getting upset about the practice. But when officials were rating officials and not giving a cross section of ratings to the IHSA's satisfaction, we got letters and officials had their rating privileges suspended until they wrote a letter to the IHSA to explain themselves. The rating system is a big factor as to who gets playoffs here, and there was an outcry when officials were doing things possibly unethical there. If our state felt it was cheating, they would have changed their process long ago. They changed the way we take the Part 2 Exam and the promotion process because those systems were getting out of hand. So if folks like Windy want to *****, let them. I personally do not care what other states do and neither should anyone care about what my state does. It is not like one or two states are the only people that have this test available. Not sure how they could ever change the way people share the answers.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

From your fingertips:

b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.

What part of giving someone the answers doesn't make a difference? It seems to me that a couple of points are on the line.

Again, going over the test at a function is different from getting the answer key. Unless, you just sit there and right down the answers withour participating in the discussion, that is.

I haven't done any name calling, so I guess the pressure must be getting to you. You'll never convince me that what you did was a valuable service. You were a mule...you carried the contraband to the user and now want absolution. The thing is, I don't care. I'm not the one that is going to judge you in regards to playoff eleigibility. But I will have a say when it comes to further IACAO involvement. Your principles are tarnished and no amount of excuses will clean it up.

The members that came to your aid had weak defenses at best. "We want to know the answers, everyone else has them." or "I just want to know how I did." I guess they have no colleagues with phones. Doesn't their state association have a working phone? How about email, they seem to be caapable to use the internet.

Go ahead and dilute the quality of officiating by providing the answers. Those that believe that it makes no difference are usually not the guys at the top of the talent pool. It's always easy to say that a test is not the measure of an official. Yet, professionals are still tested each year, just to keep them sharp. Hmmmmm...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

IHSA Handbook

D. Post-Season Assignments. The IHSA will assign officials to post season tournaments. Assignments are based on a number of factors, but not limited to the
following:
1. Power Rating 30 points possible
a. Promotional level X – R – C, C – 5 pts., R – 3 pts., X – 1 pts.
b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.
c. Previous tournament experience SF – 5 pt., Super or Semi – 4 pts.,
Sec/Quart 3—pts., Regional – 1 pt.
d. All rating (use percentile based on average rating divided by # of ratings)
90% - 5 pts. 80% - 4 pts. 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts. 50 % - 1 pt.
e. Number of High School varsity games worked
70% - 5 pts., 60% - 4 pts., 50% - 3 pts., 40% - 2 pts., 30% - 1 pt.
(based on number of games allowed by the IHSA by-laws in regular season for each sport by the IHSA by-laws)
f. Top 15 List from Associations, Assignors, and Schools (based on percentile of average rating divide by the number of rating)
90% - 5 pts., 80% - 4 pts., 70% - 3 pts. 60% - 2 pts., 50% - 1 pt.


6. Preference is given to Certified Official with high power rating – then to
Recognized Official with high power rating. High power rating may move a
Registered Official over a Certified Official in early rounds of the post season
tournament.

Am I reading this right, Jeff? If you get 97% on your exam, that will give you 3 more power points than if you score 84% on the exam? Iow, out of a total of 30 power points available, you could have a total power rating that might actually be 10% higher than if you wrote a poorer exam? And that corresponding 10% raise in an official's power rating might be enough to move an inexperienced Registered Official into a play-off game over a Certified Official?

Sounds to me like there IS an incentive there to do as well on the exam as you can. Of course, as I said before, the way that a system is supposed to run vs. the way that it actually runs can be quite a bit different. Hopefully, the IHSA knows their officials rather than assigning some play-off games by numbers.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 28th, 2004 at 05:06 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
From your fingertips:

b. Part 1 exam score 97 - 5 pts., 92 – 4 pts., 87 – 3 pts., 84 – 2 pts, 80 – 1 pts.

What part of giving someone the answers doesn't make a difference? It seems to me that a couple of points are on the line.

Again, going over the test at a function is different from getting the answer key. Unless, you just sit there and right down the answers withour participating in the discussion, that is.

I have never given the answer key. I do not know for sure what answers I received were right and what were wrong based on a key. I got my own answers and made some conclusions after many discussions with officials. The answer key has where the rules in both the Casebook and rulebook. If people want to get an idea of what answers they got right, I have no problem giving them that opportunity. It is up to them how they use what I gave them.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I haven't done any name calling, so I guess the pressure must be getting to you. You'll never convince me that what you did was a valuable service. You were a mule...you carried the contraband to the user and now want absolution. The thing is, I don't care. I'm not the one that is going to judge you in regards to playoff eleigibility. But I will have a say when it comes to further IACAO involvement. Your principles are tarnished and no amount of excuses will clean it up.

What pressure might that be Windy?

I think your behavior on this and other sites speaks for itself as it relates to what your principles and values. Obviously we do not share the same values and I would never want to say I did with the likes of you.

BTW, I will be speaking at IACAO Basketball Clinic on November 6 at Hoffman Estates. Let see how much we talk about rules in any of my presentations? You are welcome to come.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The members that came to your aid had weak defenses at best. "We want to know the answers, everyone else has them." or "I just want to know how I did." I guess they have no colleagues with phones. Doesn't their state association have a working phone? How about email, they seem to be caapable to use the internet.

Wow, you can tell the difference between a phone and the internet. Man, you sure are a good one.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Go ahead and dilute the quality of officiating by providing the answers. Those that believe that it makes no difference are usually not the guys at the top of the talent pool. It's always easy to say that a test is not the measure of an official. Yet, professionals are still tested each year, just to keep them sharp. Hmmmmm...

I have worked college basketball for about 5 years. I have never been tested in those rules. I have seen some self tests, but I have never been required to receive one game by passing an NCAA test. The NCAA seems to work well in getting their officials thru camps and recommendations. I read the rulebooks much more after the testing the period than I ever do during that time. Only in HS basketball are these tests used to prove to people you can work for some reason. Maybe there are some conferences out there that use a test to determine talent, but I have yet to know who they are. But I do know many that had to attend camps and meetings to prove their talent in basketball. But then again, you only work baseball, so you would not know much about that now would you?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Am I reading this right, Jeff? If you get 97% on your exam, that will give you 3 more power points than if you score 84% on the exam? Iow, out of a total of 30 power points available, you could have a total power rating that might actually be 10% higher than if you wrote a poorer exam? And that corresponding 10% raise in an official's power rating might be enough to move an inexperienced Registered Official into a play-off game over a Certified Official?

That would be great if the Power Rating was the factor for playoffs. It is clearly not, when they consider the many other factors below. They do not move people all over the state for the early rounds (Regional), so you are competing against people that live in your area. My regional last year was about 30 miles one way (if that). They were not sending someone from Carbondale (south of St. Louis) to work games in Northern Illinois. It might help someone that is boarder line, but if you are too dumb to check your answers or go to association meetings to get all the answers, then same on you. I am sure there are people that like to take the test completely on their own, but I have yet to meet them. So if everyone gets a 97, then what?

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Sounds to me like there IS an incentive there to do as well on the exam as you can. Of course, as I said before, the way that a system is supposed to run vs. the way that it actually runs can be quite a bit different. Hopefully, the IHSA knows their officials rather than assigning some play-off games by numbers.

The test is an open book exam. We do not take the test on a specific day, at a specific site. There are no rules, warnings or comments from the IHSA that suggest that people cannot confirm their answers with other official. I would agree with you if there was some information from the head of the Official's Department made it clear that "cheating on the test is not to be tolerated." Instead they say absolutely nothing and then say "I have no problem with officials helping each other and going over the test." And all those people that Windy keeps referencing sat there and said nothing. As a matter of fact there were several officials that were "shocked" when he made those comments. JR, they also go out and watch officials. If you prove yourself to be a competent official and use the proper mechanics, that means just as much if not more. I also have to state that no official below the ranks of a Certified Official is going to ever work a State Final. That has not only been said, it has been given out in literature to the officials. The Power rating is used as one objective gauge to determine playoff assignments. It has been made clearly by those that assign basketball (and who assign the other sports) that is not at all the major consideration. I know people that get playoffs that they feel are great officials and I am sure the power rating is not a factor in what they decide or not decide. I know people that have turned down assignments have not been considered after they were offered and opportunity. I am sure you will not read that anywhere in the literature either, but it is a factor.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

I think your behavior on this and other sites speaks for itself as it relates to what your principles and values. Obviously we do not share the same values and I would never want to say I did with the likes of you.

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That is painfully obvious.

The rest of your message sounds a lot like the guy who is trying to convince his friends that "I've still got it."
Look around, does anyone care? It's just pitiful how you are lying. You say in one post that you scored a 99 and am willing to provide those answers to thers, but now say you don't know how accurate your answers are. Well...which way is it?

Finally, Jurassic is correct in reading the actual procedure. The facts are the facts. there is an incentive to score well in Illinois and a couple of other states. But then again, I just work baseball, so I don't understand this whole "enabling/cheating" thing. I guess I must have read the IHSA Officials Code of Ethics incorrectly, too. You are pretty good at copying and pasting...could you please provide those for us? I'd love to hear you explain those.

[JRutledge]

Windy,

Let us not go there about the Code of Ethics and your behavior here. Puulleese do not try that argument.

Windy, I will see someone directly from the IHSA tomorrow. I will ask him what he thinks about it. I am still waiting for Kurt to contact me as you stated. I am also looking forward to all this heat you claim is coming my way.

I guess we will see how much in the loop you are.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

I almost forgot, in order to be promoted in Illlinois, you have to receive and 85% or 90%...another reason to cheat!

Here, let me help with the code of conduct stuff...

from the National Federation of State High School Associations

In recognition of these expectations there is hereby established a Code of Ethics for all officials.
The purpose of the code is to establish guidelines for ethical standards of conduct for all officials.

An Official must devote time, thought and study to the rules of the game and the mechanics necessary to carry out these rules so that one may render effective and creditable service in a fair and unbiased manner.

An Official must work with fellow officials and the state association in a spirit of harmony and cooperation in spite of differences of opinion that may arise during debate of points or rules at issue.

An Official must resist every temptation and outside pressure to use one's position as an official to benefit oneself. Under all circumstances, officials must avoid promoting the special interest of any person or group of persons other than the athletes we serve.

An Official must constantly uphold the honor and dignity of the avocation in all personal conduct and relations with the student-athletes, coaches, athletic directors, school administrators, colleagues, and the public, to be a worthy example to the athletes under one's jurisdiction.

An Official will be prepared both physically and mentally, dress according to expectations and maintain a proper appearance that is befitting the importance of the game.

The Official shall avoid the use of tobacco and products at the contest site.

An Official must remember and recognize that it is important to honor contracts regardless of possible inconvenience or financial loss.

Every member of the officiating profession carries a responsibility to act in a manner becoming a professional person.Â* The conduct of any official influences the attitude of the public toward the profession in general as well as toward the official in particular.

If that doesnÂ’t do it for you...from the 2004-2005 IHSA Officials Handbook:

Maintaining an Active Officiating License
1. To maintain or renew an Active IHSA Officials License, an official must:
a. pay an annual fee of $35.00 for first sport and $15.00 for additional sport, plus a late fee if applicable;
b. properly complete and submit the renewal form by June 30th of each year;

c. properly submit and obtain at least an 80% on the current rules examination (see deadlines below);

d. attend an annual IHSA rules meeting;
e. be in compliance with the IHSA certified clinic requirement;
f. be in compliance with the IHSA conviction policy;

Suspension
1. An IHSA officiating license may be suspended for the following reasons:
a. not attending a rules meeting and/or not meeting the examination
requirements for two consecutive years;
b. not attending an IHSA Certified Clinic within three calendar years;
c. reports of the official failing to meet more than two contractual
agreements;
d. failure to properly complete and submit required special report forms on
more than three occasions;
e. report of abusive physical contact (including striking or shoving) or
verbal abuse of a contestant, coach or fan, immediately before, during, or
after an IHSA contest at which the official is officiating;

f. reports of the official displaying a lack of proficiency, knowledge or
understanding of the rules of the contest on more than six occasions;
g. reports of the official displaying gross acts of misconduct or
unprofessional behavior;
h. indictment for a felony or other crime;
i. failure to meet requirements of conviction policy;
j. report of physical or emotional limitations that prevent, restrict, or
disqualify the person from performing the normal functions and duties of
an official in that sport; and for which no reasonable accommodation can
be made; and
k. knowingly providing false, incomplete or inaccurate information on an IHSA application, renewal form, special report form, or officials web site information page.

Officials — Keys to Good Sportsmanship
One of the goals of interscholastic competition is to teach important values while
enriching the educational experience of the young men and women who participate.
Good sportsmanship is certainly one of those important values, and as a result,
promoting good sportsmanship is clearly one of our highest priorities.
We also believe officials play key roles in teaching and promoting good sports-manship.
The following information contains a brief summary of sportsmanship
expectations for officials. By following these guidelines officials can enhance the
lifelong lessons that are being taught in the interscholastic classroom. We urge you
to read them carefully and hope you will remember to SPORT A WINNING ATTITUDE
when officiating interscholastic contests in IHSA member schools.
• Accept your role in an unassuming manner. Showboating and over-officiating
are not acceptable.
• Maintain confidence and poise, controlling the contest from start to finish.

• Know the rules of the game thoroughly and abide by the established Code of
Ethics.

• Publicly shake hands with coaches of both teams before the contest.
• Never exhibit emotions or argue with participants and coaches when enforcing
rules.
• When watching a game as a spectator, give the officials the same respect you
expect to receive when working a contest.