Key to Part 1

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Yeah, this thread is getting complicated. Here's the Cliff Notes version in the form of a 1 act morality play that might help us all follow along.

Original poster: "Tests are hard. Anyone have the answer to number 1...and 2...and 3...while you're at it let me have the answer to all 100 questions. Damn, tests are hard."

Other worried posters: "Yeah, tests are hard."

Rut: "I feel your pain. Here are all the answers."

(Ed comment: every year about this time 2 things are guaranteed to happen: I'll start going through the local stash of Halloween candy and Rut will post the part 1 answers.)

Other worried posters: "Thank you kind sir, having those answers are a load off my mind and I'll be a much better official now because I'll be working 6th grade girls games instead of reading that nasty rule book."

Nevada: "Through my deep understanding of statistics I have previously proven that it's virtually impossible for a brain damaged monkey on crack (ed comment: IOO a Red Sox fan) to score less than a grade of 80 on this test. This will obviously earn me a Nobel prize, and for this reason I declare the answers shall remain a secret!"

Camron: "Obviously none of you have passed 9th grade math and that's the reason why you're all unemployed. Now, where are my fries???"

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS!!!!!!! I MEAN, YOU GAVE OUT *THE* ANSWERS!!!!!!!!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU???!! THOSE ARE *THE* ANSWERS!!!! I AM GOING TO REPORT YOU TO THE TEACHER RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL BE SORRY!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS AND YOU USED THE F WORD!!!!!!!!!!! AS SOON AS I STOP CRYING I WILL DEFINITELY BE GOING TO THE TEACHER AND I HEAR SHE'S A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF JURASSIC REFEREE!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Jurassic Referee: "F*** you Windy."

Yet another worried poster: "uuuuhhhhmmmm...Jeff?? Can you e-mail me the answers too?"

Yup, that pretty much covers it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by stripes
Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there that there are states (like mine) where part I is given out to be done (open book) and then turned in and that someone might like to have the correct answers to check against his own?

I get together with 6-8 other officials each year (after we have all completed the test on our own) to discuss the test. Each year there are 3-5 questions that we argue about for quite awhile. Usually at that point we break out the correct answer to settle the debate.

Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there also that there are states where Part 1 is given out as an official test(either open or closed book), and the results of that test may determine their rating or eligibility for playoff games? What might be OK for officials in one state does not necessarily mean that it applies to ALL states.

Don't you get the correct answers when you get your test returned anyway? Or if you just get a mark, you can ask and then get the answers?

[JRutledge]

JR,

We have coachÂ’s ratings that determine playoffs. We have Top 15 list by official's associations, assignors and schools which determine playoffs. Also geography, years of experience, clinic status, and how many boysÂ’ games you worked, how many girlsÂ’ games you worked.

In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity. Now that is not a listed requirement, but that is one thing he personally might look at if officials have similar numbers in the other categories. All an IHSA official has to do is simply pass the test and you get Power Rating points. First of all you have to pass the test each year to maintain your license (probation or suspension), but you might not get any points if you are not ranked high enough in the other categories. It is clear that in our state they powers that be do not look at this test as a big deal as you are suggesting. You also are not going to go from a first round or regional to a semi-final or super-sectional in one year anyway. And the test is not going to determine that at all.

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there also that there are states where Part 1 is given out as an official test(either open or closed book), and the results of that test may determine their rating or eligibility for playoff games? What might be OK for officials in one state does not necessarily mean that it applies to ALL states.

Don't you get the correct answers when you get your test returned anyway? Or if you just get a mark, you can ask and then get the answers?

Ah the entertainment value of the internet.

I have had my laugh for the day.

Thanks all

David

[JRutledge]

very funny post. I am now awake.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity.
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That is about as big of a lie as you could tell.
The ratings system for playoffs includes your Part 1 score.
Therefore, cheating to get a higher score WILL make the difference between two officials that are very close in all other comparisons. I'm sure that Kurt will be in touch very soon.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge


First of all you have to pass the test each year to maintain your license (probation or suspension), but you might not get any points if you are not ranked high enough in the other categories.

That's the point where we disagree, Jeff. It seems like the IHSA tests your knowledge as a way to make sure that you really do know something about the rules- right? Before they license you, it seems that they do want to at least ensure that you pick up a rule book and look at it occasionally. Doesn't having the answers given to you kinda negate the whole purpose of anyone taking the test in the first place?

I can see it as not being a big deal in some areas or situations, like Stripe's maybe, but in a state where you HAVE to pass the test, it just seems like a helluva advantage to me- and an advantage that really isn't to the benefit of the testee either imo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That is about as big of a lie as you could tell.

Windy, having differing opinions of how a system really operates does not a liar of anyone make. I've seen enough different systems used that I've learned that, due to politics, preferences, etc., there can be a helluva difference between the way a system is set up to run and the way that it ACTUALLY does run.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Thanks, Dan. That gave me a good laugh!

I'm glad you enjoyed it & took it for what it was: a vehicle for me to call Red Sox fans brain damaged crack addicted monkeys.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I'm glad you enjoyed it & took it for what it was: a vehicle for me to call Red Sox fans brain damaged crack addicted monkeys.

Hey, you're not talking about the Flores Man, are you? Not nice!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
In my state, you cannot get a State Final assignment because you received a higher score than someone else. As a matter of fact, the guy that assigns the Boy's playoffs told me that the type of game you work can determine your opportunity.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

That is about as big of a lie as you could tell.
The ratings system for playoffs includes your Part 1 score.
Therefore, cheating to get a higher score WILL make the difference between two officials that are very close in all other comparisons. I'm sure that Kurt will be in touch very soon.

I have actually had a conversation with Kurt about the playoff assigning. I have also seen the man speak several times about the process he assigns official. I know many people in our state that receive the test answers and those officials cannot get a single playoff game in either Boy's or Girl's basketball. So if the test was such an important piece of consideration, then it has not shown up in the type of assignments people receive.

You have threatened me over and over again by claiming you are going to report me for something I have said. I have yet to be contacted by anyone. I introduced myself to everyone that assigns me to playoff assignments and people you claim would contact me. The only way they seem to know me is when they have seen me work a game. Anthony knew me from watching me work a game in DeKalb, Illinois. I was asked to sit on a committee by Dave. I had a conversation with Kurt about basketball and I received a call from Dave this past weekend about another manner. Not one time have they ever talked to me about his site or suggested that I have stated anything out of line. Not one time. As a matter of fact, I have received 2 playoff assignments since your little threats. So I will see Kurt on November 6 and I am supposed to talk to him about another issue at the request of a Rules Interpreter and Clinician. So I am sure this will come up. Not that the man has other issues to worry about. But it is not like I have never been called from the IHSA about anything in the past.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Hey, you're not talking about the Flores Man, are you? Not nice!

I understand George is trying to get MLB to investigate this and DQ the SOX for this obviously illegal activity.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
That's the point where we disagree, Jeff. It seems like the IHSA tests your knowledge as a way to make sure that you really do know something about the rules- right? Before they license you, it seems that they do want to at least ensure that you pick up a rule book and look at it occasionally. Doesn't having the answers given to you kinda negate the whole purpose of anyone taking the test in the first place?

I do not disagree with your position about the basic part of the test. But if anyone has ever picked up a Referee Magazine in the past year, our system was talked about in great detail. The testing process was just a very small percentage of the requirement. I agree that the test is to encourage people to pick up the rulebook, but it is not the only or main factor. All the people that have contacted me are not from my state and claim they do not use the test for the purposes many here have objections to. I have been here a long time and many states do not administer the test the same way. Many do not even use the Part 1 at all. Officials should be allowed to use the answers to study for other tests. If the NF was so concerned about really testing officials, why do they advocate the Athletic Rules Study program, which asks the very same question 5 years in a row? It seems to me they could come up with some different questions each year if they really wanted folks to look thru the rulebook. When I used ARS to study for the Part 2 exam (in different sports too) I had already seen most of the questions thru the program. All I had to do was memorize the question and the answer. I did not have to look up the answer in the rulebook to know what the correct answer was.

Peace

[jritchie]

The only time we use the Part 1 exam here in kentucky is when you first get your license and they send the rule books and the test and let you take it open book and you have to get a 70% to get your license.... now the part 11 test is used during association meeting and you take i on your own closed book and if you don't get an 80% on it, you don't do post season...that is all it's used for!! so if you don't want post season games you don't even have to show up for it!!!! But if you ref all year, who wouldn't want post season games

[WindyCityBlue]

You knew exactly where yur answers were going?
Several IHSA members have pseudonyms and I saw several on this site. Are you sure that what you transmitted was not given to anyone that could use it to cheat? I didn't think so.

Lest anyone be confused, the IHSA policy does use the Part 1 score as one of the factors in slotting officials for playoff assignments. The equation has many factors, true. But, if Joe is equal to Bob on the coaches ratins, Top 15 lists and past playoff experience, this score can mean the difference between who gets the assignment. Let's say Joe, (like most of us) takes the test and scores a 90. he got tripped up on a couple of "word issues" and didn't really check into the new rules like he should have. But he's a pretty good official and was fortunate enough to be assigned a nice Regional contest last year. Bob, on the other hand, got the answers from Jeff and turned in a perfect score. When the decision is made, all things being equal, who do you assign? Remember, we have a lot of guys working out there and not all have been seen by the powers that be. For A Sectional assignment, the Assistant Director will look at the computer generated scores and figure, "This guy must really be on the ball. Four straight years of 99's and 100's."

I ask you, is it so innocent now? Aren't officials supposed to penalize those that cheat and are found out?