Key to Part 1

[JRutledge]

Dave Gannaway told officials at the IHSA Convention, that he encouraged officials to talk about the test and go over it. So anyone can report me, I have the right, and I will continue to give the test to anyone that wants it. It is up to them how they use it and how they want to take the test. This is an open book test that does use the results as a single factor for playoff consideration. They also consider official ranking (promotional level), Top 15 list percentile, coaches/officials ratings percentile, and previous playoff experience. Each of these things I just mentioned has equal consideration. Each category has 5 points depending on what your ranking or level is to accumulate a 30 Point Power rating. The test is one thing you actually can control. All the others an individual official cannot control how many points. The test can be done online or thru the mail. When you do it online, they tell you immediately what your score is. I received a 99 doing the test basically on my own and confirmed my score with others that took the test. This is very common and done in our state with just about every single official's association that I belong to and that I do not belong to. As a matter of fact, check all the agendas with IHSA Official's Associations on their website and they talk about Review of the Part 1 Exam. If this was a secret, it would not be on the associationÂ’s official website. Some even talk about what questions they will go over.

So Windy, report me. Pass this on to whoever you like. The head of the Official's Department said it was OK and many were kind of surprised. But if he has no problem with that, I do not have a problem with it. Every state uses these test differently and if they choose to take the answers, that is on them. It is not my job to set the standards of every state in the country. Many states create their own tests or require the test to be close book. As I have stated before, the only time anyone has to take the Part 2 in this state is if they are going for promotion. Once an official reaches the "Certified" level, they do not have to ever take the Part 2 Exam ever again. I am currently at that level in basketball where I never have to take that exam ever again if I pay my dues each year.

Windy, attend some meetings outside of UMPS sometime and you just might learn something. Every association I belong to distributes the test. Mostly what we use it for is to go over the rules and spark further discussion. The test is not much different than going to a rules meeting as a requirement (also a requirement to work playoffs) and sparks many debates about the rules and how to apply the rules.

BTW, November 15 is for the State of Illinois, not for everyone else. I personally do not know of anyone from the State of Illinois that has asked for the test. BTW, the association I belong to just went over the test last night. I have another association that will go over it next week. Be my guest. Because many of the folks that asked for the test thru email, do not take this test as a requirement. If it helps them study for another state run test that is there business.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

Why so defensive? I know IHSA policy and you just broke it. You really should read the code of conduct for officials.

The Part 1 test is just a study aid, right? Those extra points don't mean much unless you're trying to get an IHSA Sectional or Super-Sectional assignment.

Dave and Kurt don't advocate disseminating the answers during the testing period. I know that Anthony had a problem with it, too.

If it is as innocent as you say, you have nothing to worry about. But, I couldn't help noticing that you are proud to be on the IHSA Officials Convention Committee. I hope this doesn't jeopardize that. You see, discussing questions amongst yourselves or covering parts of the test in training sessions is quite different from sending them out to anyone who asks, prior to the end of testing. BTW, in which states is the test closed already? Yes, you have nothing to worry about.


[Edited by WindyCityBlue on Oct 27th, 2004 at 05:41 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
JRut, are these points true? Just wondering.

If these points are true, and an official's online Part 1 test score is related to possible playoff assignments, then I would certainly agree that using supplied answers is just plain wrong. I believe that some other states also use the Part 1 exam as their official exam too, and haven't formally written the test yet either. I get the marking key sheet for both the NFHS Part 1 and 2 tests every year, but I am very careful who I send them too. And, btw, every year I personally write the test closed book to see what I know and where I need to get my head into the book. Iow, I pretty much agree with Camron Rust's take on this.

Well that is up to your state to decide how they are going to use the test. I disagree with your position on this and you and no one else will change my mind. The test is widely distributed and if someone has to rely on the test they are doing themselves a major disservice. There are 11 Months out of the year when they can read and study the rulebook. You need to read and study the rulebook (not the test) to learn rules. I personally every year go over every test question and try to find every rule. That is far and above what most people do and because of that I learn more about the rules. I also am asked many questions and get into many debates about rules and practical application. Sometimes there are major disagreements but you learn more about the game by having those discussions than just taking the test. I have participated in a get together with other officials where we go over the test every year. We do it at an officialÂ’s house and go over every question and discuss the reason the answers are true or false. When I was in college, you were very lucky if you ever saw a T/F test. Usually they were essay or written answer tests. True/False tests do not prove anything. If that makes me a bad person, then I will have to be a bad person.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Thank you. You just gave Kurt what he needed.

I will see Kurt on November 6 at Hoffman Estates. I am will talk to him myself. BTW, Kurt was standing right next to Dave when he made the comment at the Convention.

Fire away Windbag!!

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

I just copied Mary Struckhoff at NFHS.

Keep supplying us with ammo, genius.
Even JR, someone who never agrees with me, sees the folly of your plight. Sometimes anonymity is a beautiful thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I just copied Mary Struckhoff at NFHS.

Keep supplying us with ammo, genius.
Even JR, someone who never agrees with me, sees the folly of your plight. Sometimes anonymity is a beautiful thing.

Wow, Mary Struckoff? I am really scared now. Remind me to shiver a little when after I laugh excessively with your comments. I do not care whether JR agrees with you. I have disagreed with him on this issue before you even knew where this site was located. Probably before you got the internet on your computer. Also, it is not like Mary was well respected when she was here. And it is not the case with many of the people in place today. Report away. I am still laughing at your sorry behind.

BTW, Marty Hickman (former NF Basketball Committee Member) was at the front of the room. So were Anthony Holman, Beth Seuer (sp?), and any other Assistant Executive Director I could think of. So go right ahead. Kurt would have to take an issue with every single Officials association that holds meetings. Keep emailing everyone if you like. Not one objected or made an issue out of the comments from the person that runs the entire Official's Department.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

Yes, and I'm sure that they said it was acceptable protocol to give the answers out online, during the actual testing phase. The hole is getting deeper.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Yes, and I'm sure that they said it was acceptable protocol to give the answers out online, during the actual testing phase. The hole is getting deeper.

Actually he did. He sure did not say not to go over the test; he thought it made since to go over the test with fellow officials. But like I said, you were not there. Not all states use this test the same way. So the people I am giving the test to are not even from Illinois. So what is your point?

Oh, I forgot, you are going to email Mary. Remind me again to shake a little.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I just copied Mary Struckhoff at NFHS.

Keep supplying us with ammo, genius.
Even JR, someone who never agrees with me, sees the folly of your plight. Sometimes anonymity is a beautiful thing.

Don't ever speak for JR, Windy. Ever.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Why so defensive? I know IHSA policy and you just broke it. You really should read the code of conduct for officials.

The Part 1 test is just a study aid, right? Those extra points don't mean much unless you're trying to get an IHSA Sectional or Super-Sectional assignment.

Actually no Windy. Because if everyone is getting the same score or similar score, I am sure you need a lot more than 5 points. You get points for passing the test. You might not get any points in the other categories. Someone has to think you are a good official to work that level of ball, not your power rating. But you knew that right?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Dave and Kurt don't advocate disseminating the answers during the testing period. I know that Anthony had a problem with it, too.

Interesting that you have not once mentioned Beth in this discussion at all. Beth is an equal person to Kurt. All four of these individuals that we are talking about all run a sport (Beth as Girl's Basketball btw) or multiple sports. When Dave made these comments, everyone of importance was sitting in the room. Not a single person said a word or disagreed or said anything in opposition. They had every opportunity to do so then in front of official's association representatives and other IHSA leadership. Dave was responding to a question about this issue as well. So it was not like you could take his comments out of context.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
If it is as innocent as you say, you have nothing to worry about. But, I couldn't help noticing that you are proud to be on the IHSA Officials Convention Committee. I hope this doesn't jeopardize that.

It won't. If anyone had a problem with it, they can call me directly. I just spoke to someone this weekend and they have my number. So report it, they can talk to me. I will see another head clinician on Friday and he can say something to me if he likes. I just find it funny that you are so out of touch it is really sad. You make it sound like I have never had a conversation with any of these individuals or I will not have conversations with them in the future.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You see, discussing questions amongst yourselves or covering parts of the test in training sessions is quite different from sending them out to anyone who asks, prior to the end of testing. BTW, in which states is the test closed already? Yes, you have nothing to worry about.

I am responding to you because you are misrepresenting the issue to everyone that can read this post. You have name dropped before to try to scare me in the past and think that means something. It did not do anything the last time you made that threat and it will not do anything this time. If the IHSA does not want us to figure out what the answers are, then they do not have to tell us what our score is until the testing period is completely over. They told me what my score was (as they do with everyone) and showed me my answers. I bounced off my answers as many people do to see which one I got wrong (I had a 99). So keep it up, you are just making it funny for everyone else here with you comical point of view.

And if you think a State Final is determined by the test score, you are further out of the loop than you have tried to represent. The power rating might get you in the playoffs, it sure does not advance your possibilities.

Peace

[dblref]

Rut: You have mail. Thanks.

[JRutledge]

Windy,

I will see Dave on Friday. Maybe we will talk about your email.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Yeah, this thread is getting complicated. Here's the Cliff Notes version in the form of a 1 act morality play that might help us all follow along.

Original poster: "Tests are hard. Anyone have the answer to number 1...and 2...and 3...while you're at it let me have the answer to all 100 questions. Damn, tests are hard."

Other worried posters: "Yeah, tests are hard."

Rut: "I feel your pain. Here are all the answers."

(Ed comment: every year about this time 2 things are guaranteed to happen: I'll start going through the local stash of Halloween candy and Rut will post the part 1 answers.)

Other worried posters: "Thank you kind sir, having those answers are a load off my mind and I'll be a much better official now because I'll be working 6th grade girls games instead of reading that nasty rule book."

Nevada: "Through my deep understanding of statistics I have previously proven that it's virtually impossible for a brain damaged monkey on crack (ed comment: IOO a Red Sox fan) to score less than a grade of 80 on this test. This will obviously earn me a Nobel prize, and for this reason I declare the answers shall remain a secret!"

Camron: "Obviously none of you have passed 9th grade math and that's the reason why you're all unemployed. Now, where are my fries???"

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS!!!!!!! I MEAN, YOU GAVE OUT *THE* ANSWERS!!!!!!!!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU???!! THOSE ARE *THE* ANSWERS!!!! I AM GOING TO REPORT YOU TO THE TEACHER RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL BE SORRY!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Some jerk called windy: "AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! YOU GAVE OUT THE ANSWERS AND YOU USED THE F WORD!!!!!!!!!!! AS SOON AS I STOP CRYING I WILL DEFINITELY BE GOING TO THE TEACHER AND I HEAR SHE'S A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF JURASSIC REFEREE!!!!!!"

Rut: "F*** you Windy."

Jurassic Referee: "F*** you Windy."

Yet another worried poster: "uuuuhhhhmmmm...Jeff?? Can you e-mail me the answers too?"

[stripes]

Did it ever occur to any of the geniuses out there that there are states (like mine) where part I is given out to be done (open book) and then turned in and that someone might like to have the correct answers to check against his own?

I get together with 6-8 other officials each year (after we have all completed the test on our own) to discuss the test. Each year there are 3-5 questions that we argue about for quite awhile. Usually at that point we break out the correct answer to settle the debate.

As always, I am sure that there are those out there in cyberland that think that this is immoral, unethical and that we should have all of our games pulled for asking for (or sharing) the correct answers on an open book test. For all of you, too bad, they are a great study aid.

Those who use it to cheat...they'd find another way if this one doesn't work out for them. They'll flush themselves out with or without a test.

Thanks Jeff.

[Edited by stripes on Oct 28th, 2004 at 02:41 AM]

[Nevadaref]

Thanks, Dan. That gave me a good laugh!