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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 09:52am
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A1 stops his dribble with a jump stop and begins pivoting on his right foot. So far no harm done. He then looses his balance but keeps right foot down. In an effort to regain his balance and keep from falling to his knees, with both hands on the ball he touches the ball to the floor and pushes himself back up. Only the ball touches the floor.

Is this double dribble?
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 09:56am
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No, it's perfectly legal.

Z
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
No, it's perfectly legal.

Z
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
Depends on whay "type" of jump stop he used. The pivot might have been legal.

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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:12am
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in this example, legal pivot
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
Depends on whay "type" of jump stop he used. The pivot might have been legal.

Yes, the player can lift either foot to shoot or pass after a jump-stop...but if the lifted foot returns to the floor, TRAVEL!
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
Depends on whay "type" of jump stop he used. The pivot might have been legal.

Yes, the player can lift either foot to shoot or pass after a jump-stop...but if the lifted foot returns to the floor, TRAVEL!
Nope, not true.

There are two different types of jumpstops.

If A1 ended his dribble with both feet off the floor, then he can pivot after the jumpstop. This is what Bob is refering to.

If A1 ended his dribble with one feet on the floor and jumped off that foot, then he cannot pivot after the jumpstop. This is what you are referring to.
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:21am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
Depends on whay "type" of jump stop he used. The pivot might have been legal.

Yes, the player can lift either foot to shoot or pass after a jump-stop...but if the lifted foot returns to the floor, TRAVEL!
Not necessarily, as Bob said. There's different kinds of "jump stops". The key to the call is to find the pivot foot and then know what the prescribed limits are that relate to that type of jump stop. If you still have your 2002/03 NFHS rule book, there was a good explanation in the POE's- POE #6 to be exact/.
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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
But we missed the travel when he pivoted after jump-stopping!
Depends on whay "type" of jump stop he used. The pivot might have been legal.

Yes, the player can lift either foot to shoot or pass after a jump-stop...but if the lifted foot returns to the floor, TRAVEL!
Not necessarily, as Bob said. There's different kinds of "jump stops". The key to the call is to find the pivot foot and then know what the prescribed limits are that relate to that type of jump stop. If you still have your 2002/03 NFHS rule book, there was a good explanation in the POE's- POE #6 to be exact/.
I define a true jump-stop as jumping off 1 foot and landing on 2. Ending a dribble with both feet off the floor and landing on 2...I really don't qualify that as a true jump-stop. Perhaps I should re-assess...however, I have not read anything here that would make me change my current definition.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
I define a true jump-stop as jumping off 1 foot and landing on 2. Ending a dribble with both feet off the floor and landing on 2...I really don't qualify that as a true jump-stop. Perhaps I should re-assess...however, I have not read anything here that would make me change my current definition.
While you may not think that is a jump stop, it is part of the definition. You are not alone in not understanding the term.

From the 2005 NCAA rules changes:
Quote:
Rule 4-42 (page 76)—The following definition shall be added: A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with…

1. one foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).

2. two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).

A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot.

Rationale: Adds clarity to a commonly misunderstood term.


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Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
If you still have your 2002/03 NFHS rule book, there was a good explanation in the POE's- POE #6 to be exact/. [/B]
I define a true jump-stop as jumping off 1 foot and landing on 2. Ending a dribble with both feet off the floor and landing on 2...I really don't qualify that as a true jump-stop. Perhaps I should re-assess...however, I have not read anything here that would make me change my current definition. [/B][/QUOTE]Indy, you definitely should re-assess. Your definition of a "jump stop" is incomplete.

From the POE's in the 2002/03 NFHS rule book:

POE#6- TRAVELLING:
The travelling rule has not changed.What has changed is the common use of the jump stop as an offensive move. Officials and coaches are having difficulty determining the difference between a legal and illegal move. The key to making this determination properly is first finding the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball, a travelling violation has occurred. The limits follow:
1) A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other foot is the pivot foot.
2) A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
(a)If both feet are off the floor and the player lands;
(1)Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
(2)On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
(3)On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
(b)If one foot is on the floor;
(1)It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2)The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
3) After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot;
(a)The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
(b)If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
(c)The pivot foot may not be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
4) After coming to a stop where neither foot can be a pivot;
(a)One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
(b)Neither foot may be lifted, before the ball is released to start a dribble.
5) a player holding the ball;
(a)May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot;
(b)After gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not stand or attempt to get up.


There's a whole buncha different scenarios involved, Indy.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 7th, 2004 at 12:09 PM]
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot.

Rationale: Adds clarity to a commonly misunderstood term.
This additional clarity is great, but my application of the term will be the same...and run in compliance with its intended meaning.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 11:19am
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however, after the jumpstop he/she can leap off of one foot and shoot or pass as long as the ball leaves their hand before the foot returns to the floor.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 11:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimgolf
A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot.

Rationale: Adds clarity to a commonly misunderstood term.
This additional clarity is great, but my application of the term will be the same...and run in compliance with its intended meaning.
Ooooooh! Do I detect a scent of arrogance?

Consider however you like, there are two different types of jumpstops as defined by the NFHS Rule Book. That IS the "intended meaning."
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 07, 2004, 11:27am
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I find that if you can determine where they gathered control of the ball from the dribble will help determine what they can do. If they gain control while in the air from the jump stop, they can pivot. If control is gained with one foot on the floor, no pivot. The key is where were the feet when control of the ball was obtained.
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