End of game

[som44]

Situation. Team A down by one--8 Seconds to go in game-Team A inbounding ball after a basket by team B--Team A Inbounds and team A player quickly gets around his defensive player-dribbling to mid court with an advantage ie 5 on 4--you notice the clock has not started--since you are counting down for a ten second violation you have definite knowledge of time elasped--do you blow whistle as soon as you notice clock and stop Team A's advantage?
It seems the only right option to me--what else can you possibly do? or what should you do?

thanks

[jdccpa]

Don't blow the whistle, you keep the count and blow the game over if the 8 sec. expire. Correct the time remaining only if a whistle is blown for a foul or violation before time expires. NFHS 5-10-2

[Edited by jdccpa on Aug 14th, 2004 at 11:14 AM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by jdccpa
Don't blow the whistle, you keep the count and blow the game over if the 8 sec. expire. Correct the time remaining only if a whistle is blown for a foul or violation before time expires. NFHS 5-10-2

I agree. ALso, I'd keep a count going with one arm so that everyone can see that I've been keeping track the whole time.

And remind yourself that the next time you're at the end of a close game, you'll be more conscientious about keeping everyone completely in the moment. That last quick sentence right before you inbound the ball...

...wait a minute...

Why was the clock stopped in the first place? Was the shot a free throw?

[BlackFox40]

I also agree. I've been in situations like yours and I just kept my count strong, firm and visible. Now letÂ’s take this a little further and assume there are no violations or fouls before the time expires. If the bucket happens to go in, close in on the call and signal with confidence. If the ball was released after your 8 second count while the ball is suspended in mid air, immediately turn your back to the play and signal no basket!! No basket!! And continue walking away. Otherwise could you imagine standing there watching the ball go right into the bucket then having to signal no basket. It's a better sell to everyone if you walk away signaling.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Why was the clock stopped in the first place? Was the shot a free throw?

Prolly an NCAA guy.

[som44]

time was stoped due to a time out after team b basket--sorry--thanks for your help

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by som44
time was stoped due to a time out after team b basket--sorry--thanks for your help

Yea, okay. So next time, when it's the end of a close game, you spend that last time out talking to partner(s), talking to table, talking to whoever else needs to be 100% accurate. This is the part of the game you CAN and SHOULD control. This sounds like a reprimand, and I don't intend it that way. I'm just saying it's the lesson you can learn from this situation. Maybe this is a good time to remind each other, "Let's get the call right!", eh, tomegun?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by jdccpa
Don't blow the whistle, you keep the count and blow the game over if the 8 sec. expire. Correct the time remaining only if a whistle is blown for a foul or violation before time expires. NFHS 5-10-2

posted by Juulie
I agree. ALso, I'd keep a count going with one arm so that everyone can see that I've been keeping track the whole time.

posted by BlackFox
I also agree. I've been in situations like yours and I just kept my count strong, firm and visible.

Well, I'm going to respectfully disagree, with a caveat. As soon as you notice that the clock has not started, kill the play and have the timer set the clock to the correct time. Here's the caveat -- do it only if you can blow the whistle before the offensive team has started attacking the basket.

People will be much less unhappy if you correct it immediately than if you "surprise" everyone by killing the game without a horn.

The case play cited above specifies that the official was unaware of the timer's error. The timer informs the official of the error. But if you know the error has occured, correct it as soon as is reasonable.

If you can't stop the play before the offensive team starts attacking the basket, then keep your count going. But if people don't notice that the clock is still stopped, they're not going to notice that you're swinging your arm.

Coach: "Why didn't you correct the clock?!?!?!"

Official: "B/c I was keeping the count myself. Didn't you see me swinging my arm?"

Coach: Unprintable.

Official: "Whack. Good-bye!"

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Coach: Unprintable.

Official: "Whack. Good-bye!"

And usually for me, by this time in the game, that's his 2nd.

[Snake~eyes]

I actually like Chuck's position better. If I was a coach I would rather want it stopped and fixed so that all my players can see the time on the clock, but only if I hadn't been attacking the basket. If my player is going in for a layup and you stop it I will be kind of mad. It is a tough predicament though.

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Yea, okay. So next time, when it's the end of a close game, you spend that last time out talking to partner(s), talking to table, talking to whoever else needs to be 100% accurate. This is the part of the game you CAN and SHOULD control. This sounds like a reprimand, and I don't intend it that way. I'm just saying it's the lesson you can learn from this situation. Maybe this is a good time to remind each other, "Let's get the call right!", eh, tomegun?

I can't speak for 100% of the situations, but I do know that with veteran crews and tight games in this situation will come to the table and remind the game crew to start the clock on the chop.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Well, I'm going to respectfully disagree, with a caveat. As soon as you notice that the clock has not started, kill the play and have the timer set the clock to the correct time. Here's the caveat -- do it only if you can blow the whistle before the offensive team has started attacking the basket.

People will be much less unhappy if you correct it immediately than if you "surprise" everyone by killing the game without a horn.

The case play cited above specifies that the official was unaware of the timer's error. The timer informs the official of the error. But if you know the error has occured, correct it as soon as is reasonable.

If you can't stop the play before the offensive team starts attacking the basket, then keep your count going. But if people don't notice that the clock is still stopped, they're not going to notice that you're swinging your arm.

Coach: "Why didn't you correct the clock?!?!?!"

Official: "B/c I was keeping the count myself. Didn't you see me swinging my arm?"

Coach: Unprintable.

Official: "Whack. Good-bye!"

Chuck, I see your point. But I guess I'd sort of assume they are attacking the basket as soon as they get their hands on the ball, even if that's back under the other basket. So in your procedure, do you give the ball back approximately at the point where it is, with whatever seconds you think they have remaining? Or do you go back under the other basket, and have a do-over with 8 seconds?

Does anyone have the link to that similar thread we had a few months ago where the ref chopped the time in too early? Or was it the table that got it wrong? This isn't quite the same, but the same philosophies might be applied. Besides, there isn't much else to argue about right now, is there?

[Snake~eyes]

I think I give the ball where it was when I blew the whistle.

As for the situation you're talking about it was because the official chopped the clock to early.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I guess I'd sort of assume they are attacking the basket as soon as they get their hands on the ball, even if that's back under the other basket. So in your procedure, do you give the ball back approximately at the point where it is, with whatever seconds you think they have remaining? Or do you go back under the other basket, and have a do-over with 8 seconds?

I had this exact scenario in a HS varsity game a couple seasons ago, except that there 10 seconds left. Don't assume anything. If they're not driving to the basket, or about to pass to the post, you can kill it. If you notice it while they're still in their own backcourt, so much the better. You may not have the chance to kill it; but 8 seconds is a long time (ask any rodeo bull rider) and they may take a couple seconds to set up a final shot.

As to where to put it in play. . . When we discussed the question of what happens when an inbounder fails to step OOB after a basket, I believe that I made my feelings about "do-overs" very clear. No do-over. You award the ball at the closest spot to where it was when you blew the whistle to fix the clock.

As always, just my opinion, for whatever you think it's worth.

[Jay R]

Chuck, when you say no do-overs, do you mean you would subtract the X seconds from the clock? Example if three seconds passed before you noticed the clock was not running, would you take off those three seconds before resuming play?