Out of Bounds (OOB)?

[Richard Ogg]

This one sent me to my book! I was watching from the stands.... The visiting guard stole the ball above the 3-point arc. He made a wild cross-court pass to a team-mate breaking down court. The pass was too high and headed OOB. The second player jumped and batted the ball toward the hoop, then came down and his momentum carried him OOB. He returned inbounds and was the first to touch the ball, dribbling in the the lay-up. Ref right on the play made no call.

Best I can tell, reverse inference from the case book says this is correct. Explanations seem to indicate that if a player never establishes "player control", and goes out of bounds involunteerily (i.e., from momentum), then the player can return in bounds and be first to touch the ball.

Come to think of it, I couldn't find in the rule book where a player dribbling the ball is not allowed to unintentionally leave the court, then return inbounds before touching the ball, and continue. My recollection, however, is that this is an OOB call.

Comments?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
This one sent me to my book! I was watching from the stands.... The visiting guard stole the ball above the 3-point arc. He made a wild cross-court pass to a team-mate breaking down court. The pass was too high and headed OOB. The second player jumped and batted the ball toward the hoop, then came down and his momentum carried him OOB. He returned inbounds and was the first to touch the ball, dribbling in the the lay-up. Ref right on the play made no call.

Best I can tell, reverse inference from the case book says this is correct. Explanations seem to indicate that if a player never establishes "player control", and goes out of bounds involunteerily (i.e., from momentum), then the player can return in bounds and be first to touch the ball.

Come to think of it, I couldn't find in the rule book where a player dribbling the ball is not allowed to unintentionally leave the court, then return inbounds before touching the ball, and continue. My recollection, however, is that this is an OOB call.

Comments?

There are several cases in the case book that deal with the original play. As long as the player does not have player control, it's not a violation. For example, if a player has player control, but the ball bounces off his foot during a dribble (interrupted dribble), and the player steps on a boundary line, then comes back in and recovers the ball, that's not a violation (this rule was changed in '97).

The prohibition on a dribbler touching the line can be found in 9-3.

[BktBallRef]

Ralph, I had a play similiar to yours during a holiday tourney girls game. A guard was playing back and broke doewncourt after a steal by a teammate. The pass wass long but she saved it from going OOB. However, her momentum carried her OOB. She came back in, still no defender, got the ball and laid it in.

The crowd went nuts when I didn't call anything.

[hoopsrefBC]

Just remeber that the player steping OOB must establish both feet back onto the court before touching the ball.


by the way, great non call...

keep smiling
SH

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
Just remeber that the player steping OOB must establish both feet back onto the court before touching the ball.

This is NOT true. A player is inbounds if/when they are touching inbounds (with ANY part of their body) and are not touching OOB. They are also inbounds if the very last part of their body to touch the floor was touching inbounds.

That said, any inbounds player may always legally touch the ball in regards to having an OOB violation---excepting throwin limitations on the thrower, travels, or illegal dribble rules.

[ScottParks]

According to the IAABO referee exam, question #77:

A-1 while airborne, catches the ball attempting to prevent a live ball from going out of bounds. A-1 throws the ball to the floor, returns to the court, recovers the ball and dribbles.

This is not considered a legal play.

The difference that I see on this one and the other example above is he catches the ball versus bats it and throws it to the floor, thus initiating a dribble. In the act of recovering the ball, he terminates the dribble and then starts to dribble again..... alas, double dribble violation.

The exam cites rule 4, Section 15, Article 3.

Is my reasoning correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by parkssa
According to the IAABO referee exam, question #77:

A-1 while airborne, catches the ball attempting to prevent a live ball from going out of bounds. A-1 throws the ball to the floor, returns to the court, recovers the ball and dribbles.

This is not considered a legal play.

The difference that I see on this one and the other example above is he catches the ball versus bats it and throws it to the floor, thus initiating a dribble. In the act of recovering the ball, he terminates the dribble and then starts to dribble again..... alas, double dribble violation.

The exam cites rule 4, Section 15, Article 3.

Is my reasoning correct?

If you (or, more accurately, the writer of the question) thought that throwing the ball to the floor was the start of a dribble, then the violation occurred as soon as the player touched the boundary line. See 9-3 Question.

If it was an interrupted dribble, then your reasoning is correct.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by parkssa
According to the IAABO referee exam, question #77:

A-1 while airborne, catches the ball attempting to prevent a live ball from going out of bounds. A-1 throws the ball to the floor, returns to the court, recovers the ball and dribbles.

This is not considered a legal play.

The difference that I see on this one and the other example above is he catches the ball versus bats it and throws it to the floor, thus initiating a dribble. In the act of recovering the ball, he terminates the dribble and then starts to dribble again..... alas, double dribble violation.

The exam cites rule 4, Section 15, Article 3.

Is my reasoning correct?

This a double dribble if you consider that A1 threw the ball to the floor and started a dribble. This play doesn't have anything to do with A1 going OOB. Had he come back inbounds and continued the dribble that he started before going OOB, the play would have been legal.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

This a double dribble if you consider that A1 threw the ball to the floor and started a dribble. This play doesn't have anything to do with A1 going OOB. Had he come back inbounds and continued the dribble that he started before going OOB, the play would have been legal.

The player went out voluntarily, so the first retouch shouldn't be that player or it will be illegal, I think.
mick

[BktBallRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by parkssa
According to the IAABO referee exam, question #77:

A-1 while airborne, catches the ball attempting to prevent a live ball from going out of bounds. A-1 throws the ball to the floor, returns to the court, recovers the ball and dribbles.

The player went out voluntarily, so the first retouch shouldn't be that player or it will be illegal, I think.
mick

There's no rule that calls for a violation to be called if a player goes OOB and returns, if he doesn't have player control. Betcha!

Also, where did it say that the player went OOB voluntarily? There's no distinction for going OOB, without player control, and violating a rule unless a player intentionally goes OOB to deceive or gain an advantage. Of course, that's a T. The case plays under 7.1.1 discuss a players momentum carrying him OOB.

[JugglingReferee]

Legal play for the reasons already outlined.

[ScottParks]

IAABO says illegal play. Here it says legal play. HELP!

[Edited by parkssa on Jan 17th, 2001 at 12:10 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by parkssa
IAABO says illegal play. Here it says illegal play. HELP!

Your IAABO play is illegal because it's a double dribble. It doesn't have anything to do with the player going OOB. In fact, in your IAABO play, it doesn't say the player went OOB. It says that he attempts to "prevent a live ball from going out of bounds." This is a totally different sitch from the play in the original post. You're confusing the two.

Even if the player had gone OOB in the IAABO play, it would not be a violation. A player who doesn't have player control can touch a ball, go OOB unintentionally, and return inbounds and pick it up.

[Camron Rust]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

The player went out voluntarily, so the first retouch shouldn't be that player or it will be illegal, I think.
mick

Voluntary or involuntary, it makes no difference. The only rules we have are that a player may not be in control of the ball while OOB (a violation otherwise) and a player may not leave the court for an unauthorized reason (a T).

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Camron Rust

Originally posted by mick

Voluntary or involuntary, it makes no difference. The only rules we have are that a player may not be in control of the ball while OOB (a violation otherwise) and a player may not leave the court for an unauthorized reason (a T).

7.1.1B Play (Paraphrase) A1 is offbalance, steps out, steps in, and gets the ball. Ruling: Legal. A1 did not leave the court voluntarily.

Okay, fine.

In the play posted above, the player jumped out of bounds (voluntary act, no body made him, and he didn't fall), then passed to himself.
The ruling in A1, implys that if the player left the court voluntarily, then the play is illegal.

mick