International Referees

[cford]

Originally posted by Jay R

4. In FIBA, when the ball or any part of the player's body is in the front court, the ball has FC status (no three point rule when dribbling)

So if you put your foot in the front court and then bring it back you have violated, even thought your other foot and the ball are in the backcourt?

6. In FIBA, no imaginary cylinder above the basket. Goaltending is not allowed but once the ball hits the rim and is bouncing above it, there are no restrictions.

This doesn't seem fair. So at the end of the game someone puts up a shot to win it and the ball with shooters touch is bouncing around the rim and the ball (right above the cylinder) is about to go in the basket when a defensive player swats it away. If this is the case then why don't teams leave someone down there (7'5") for the sole purpose of swatting away potential goals once the ball hits the rim?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cford

So if you put your foot in the front court and then bring it back you have violated, even thought your other foot and the ball are in the backcourt?

I was wondering about this too. Jay, explain how this DOES work, on a dribble.

I can see that with the Olympics being in FIBA rules, we're going to have a long season, explaining differences all over again. Sheez...

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jay R
4. In FIBA, when the ball or any part of the player's body is in the front court, the ball has FC status (no three point rule when dribbling)

So, Jay, let's take an example. A1 is dribbling the backcourt. He passes to A2. A2 is straddling the division line. If A2 now moves his frontcourt foot and places it in the backcourt, is it a backcourt violation? If A2 merely lifts his frontcourt foot, is it a backcourt violation (since he's now totally in the backcourt after being in the frontcourt)?

Just curious.

[ChuckElias]

Guess I should've read to the end of the thread before posting my brilliant question

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by cford

So if you put your foot in the front court and then bring it back you have violated, even thought your other foot and the ball are in the backcourt?

This doesn't seem fair. So at the end of the game someone puts up a shot to win it and the ball with shooters touch is bouncing around the rim and the ball (right above the cylinder) is about to go in the basket when a defensive player swats it away. If this is the case then why don't teams leave someone down there (7'5") for the sole purpose of swatting away potential goals once the ball hits the rim?

The same benefit applies to the shooting time. Ball rolling around the rim. They can jump up there and slam it home.

Encourages better shooting...if it's nothing but net, there's nothing to knock away.

[cford]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

The same benefit applies to the shooting time. Ball rolling around the rim. They can jump up there and slam it home.

Encourages better shooting...if it's nothing but net, there's nothing to knock away.

I assume you meant shooting "team". Either way it doesn't seem like a very good rule. A Ben Wallace type could just linger around the basket and stuff anything that touches the rim. In this case Big Ben would probably average 50 points and 20 blocks. (Statistical Question - Does it count as a block shot or a rebound?)

By the way does the USA team know that they can do this? They didn't seem to know a couple of the rule differences, like calling a time out. (At the end of a quarter the US team had 3 or 4 players surrounding the ref asking for a timeout and he was just ignoring them.)

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by cford

I assume you meant shooting "team". Either way it doesn't seem like a very good rule. A Ben Wallace type could just linger around the basket and stuff anything that touches the rim. In this case Big Ben would probably average 50 points and 20 blocks. (Statistical Question - Does it count as a block shot or a rebound?)

By the way does the USA team know that they can do this? They didn't seem to know a couple of the rule differences, like calling a time out. (At the end of a quarter the US team had 3 or 4 players surrounding the ref asking for a timeout and he was just ignoring them.)

You are correct, I meant "team".

As far as an advantage...I think a properly called 3 second rule would mitigate it. If an offensive player were lingering around, I'm sure there would be a defender frustrating his efforts. Defense couldn't park there either without leaving someone open for a shot.

I think that as long as either team can is permitted to do it, it's fair. It may be different...but it's even.

The USA team IS told this. The issue arose last Olyimpics as the other teams were swiping the ball off the rim (or jamming it in) while the USA players were waiting for it to drop off. After playing for 5-10 years of not being allowed to do so, it's hard to change those kind of reflexes/habits.

(NOTE: Post #1000!!!!)

[Jay R]

There were different questions asked, I'll try to cover them. Most of you seem to answer your own questions though.

Regarding backcourt violations. Yes, if you put one foot in the FC and return to the backcourt it is a BC violation. Even if it is only the ball that touches the FC, you have FC status. Now in theory, every time a dribbler crosses the centre line, you could have a BC violation, but in practice as long as the dribbler does stop or retreat at the centre line, it's OK.

Chuck, both your examples are BC violations. Returning a foot to the BC or simply lifting the foot in the FC would constitute BC violations. To take that further, a player cannot stay there with one foot in each court because he has FC status, so he has to move into the FC or it's a violation.

Regarding basket interference or lack of it. You are correct that any player (offense or defense) can touch the ball when it has hit the rim and it is bouncing above the rim, so there is no imaginary cylinder. A player cannot however touch the basket if it is touching the rim. As far as 7 footers swatting the ball away, it happens but you don't see it very often. Probably because it is difficult to time.



[Edited by Jay R on Aug 6th, 2004 at 07:00 AM]

[NICK]

In FIBA rules
1)if the ball is sitting on the ring anybody: offense or defense cn touch the ball. It is not a violation as the ball has already touched the ring.
2)rule 41.2.3 Whilst the ball is in flight during a shot for a field goal and after an official blows his whistle or the game clock or the 24-second device signal sounds, all provisions for goal tending and interference with the ball will apply.

[Jay R]

Thank you for the correction Nick. I had said that you cannot touch the ball when it is sitting on the rim, I meant to say that you cannot touch the basket when the ball is the rim.

[Oz Referee]

With the basket interference - keep in mind that if the ball is above the level of the ring, and in downward flight, it can't be touched by the defense - it's goal-tending.

As far as the backcourt rules go - technically you could call a backcourt violation everytime a dribbler crosses half-way. But you wouldn't get far as a referee if you did!

With regards to the USA teams being told the differences between FIBA and NBA rules - it is their responsiblity to learn the correct rules, not the organisers/referees to educate them. Let's face it, when I arrive at LAX airport from Sydney, does anyone explain to me that Americans drive on the right, or that the legal drinking age is 21, that possession of marajuana is far more serious than in Australia, or any of the 100's of other legal differences? Of course not, it is my repsonsibility to be aware of the differences before I arrive - and the same should apply for the Olympics.

Phew.....that's the longest post of mine in ages!!!!

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by ref18
I heard that both Quebec, Alberta Sasketchewan, and Nova Scotia are going to the CIS rules this fall.

Alberta has been using CIS rules for about 4 or 5 seasons now, I believe, with about a half dozen modifications, including no handle in the backcourt.

FIBA will be in Canada for awhile, the CIS (university) Women have been quite adamant about not switching - although I hear if there was a "no handle in the backcourt" modification, they might be willing to do it.

[Bobby]

Also players are allowed to be in motion during the jump ball. With regards to the Euroleague, which doesn't use the possession arrow, this rule is crucial because shorter players can neutralise the jump ball by sending two players to set a 'pick' around the taller player, allowing the taller player to have their tap intercepted. That's a quirky rule in Europe, but men are permitted in motion during a jump ball except for the jumpers.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Bobby
Also players are allowed to be in motion during the jump ball. . . That's a quirky rule in Europe, but men are permitted in motion during a jump ball except for the jumpers.

There's nothing that I know of in NF or NCAA that says that players must be stationary. The only thing non-jumpers may not do is (a) move onto the circle or (b) change positions on the circle.

If you're not on the circle, you can move around anywhere on the court. Even if you're on the circle, you can move, as long as you're not changing spots with another player.

"Everybody hold your spots" is a common misconception.

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

There's nothing that I know of in NF or NCAA that says that players must be stationary. The only thing non-jumpers may not do is (a) move onto the circle or (b) change positions on the circle.

If you're not on the circle, you can move around anywhere on the court. Even if you're on the circle, you can move, as long as you're not changing spots with another player.

"Everybody hold your spots" is a common misconception.

True - but in FIBA you are not allowed to occupy a position directly behind another player, or in any other position that places a player at risk.